Elyzabeth Gregory Wilder: Welcome to Educating Theatre, a podcast concerning the apply and pedagogy of theatre schooling produced for HowlRound Theatre Commons, a free and open platform for theatremakers worldwide. I’m your host, playwright and theatre professor Elizabeth Gregory Wilder.
Welcome again to the Educating Theatre podcast. We’re actually excited right now to be speaking about devising. We’ve got two thrilling visitors with us right now. We’ve got Andy Paris, who’s an Emmy-nominated author who teaches devising at North Carolina Faculty of the Arts. He’s a founding member of the Tectonic Theatre Challenge and helped develop Second Work, a way for theatrical exploration and interdisciplinary collaboration. Utilizing the Second Work method, he co-created the critically acclaimed play The Laramie Challenge.
And we now have Emily Harrison, an assistant professor of theatre at Hamilton School. She’s the founder and producing inventive director of the Boulder-based award-winning Sq. Product Theatre. Emily’s work focuses totally on the creation and growth of recent and revolutionary works with American theatre and an exploration of American mythology, violence, and catastrophe and efficiency. Emily holds an MFA in efficiency from Savannah School of Artwork and Design, and a PhD in Theatre and Efficiency research from the College of Colorado Boulder. Thanks, guys, for being with us right now.
Andy. Paris: Thanks for having me.
Emily Harrison: Thanks for having us.
Elyzabeth: Earlier than we get began, let’s be sure that everybody is aware of what we imply by devising. Andy, might you discuss a little bit bit about what devising is and the place it got here from?
Andy: Thanks, Elizabeth. I hoped that you’d ask Emily this query first.
Elyzabeth: Shock.
Andy: My dean type of makes enjoyable of me. He’s like, “Who requested you ‘What’s devising?’ right now on campus?” Principally, I really feel like I’ve spent the final 5 years right here attempting to elucidate what devising is, and it’s fascinating as a result of what I’ve discovered too is that coaching individuals in devising apply and devising a bit of theatre really feel like two very completely different endeavors to me. And so after we’re speaking about schooling, I can speak about what devising means to college students first, after which if you would like, we will additionally speak about what it means to plot a piece.
However that’s kind of how I’ve been in a position to attempt to parse it in my mind in order that I’m not attempting to do two issues without delay that appear generally contradictory, as a result of devising a bit of labor includes a product. And a part of what devising’s present, I feel, to college students is the present of concentrating on course of with out a right away product in thoughts. And so in coaching devising apply—I’m not likely answering the query “what’s devising?” however I’m attempting—that in devising apply, a minimum of the way in which that I perceive it, we’re inspecting and the instruments of the theatre and the facility of the instruments of the theatre and the way the theatre operates and the way theatrical instruments can be utilized to create type and the way that type coupled with content material as type and content material kind of relate to one another into moments of theatrical narrative.
So after we develop Second Work, the second we’re defining partially as a, a unit of theatrical time. In order that has a starting, a center, an finish, and a few type of dynamic change. And that dynamic change is a factor that makes it a bit of narrative. So in devising apply, we’re not beginning with the story, we’re beginning with components and type after which noticing what story components are popping out or what narrative components emerge from that.
Now, ultimately then, and this will get into the making a bit factor, it’s a must to go write the factor that you simply discovered. So it’s not like a magic capsule the place it simply rises up from the ground and you’ve got a play. However what you’re hopefully endeavoring to do is to dig in and discover type that you simply as your private artistry relate to or excites you or resonates with you, after which carry that ahead with you to work extra deeply in that type.
In my day after I was developing, I feel it was referred to as “experimental theatre,” and I went to the Experimental Theatre Wing at New York College, and it was very a lot within the vein of devising, simply individuals weren’t utilizing that phrase. And I feel what occurred was “experimental theatre” had started to undertake the type of… Effectively, a type of product of theatre. And so so as to separate a… I feel individuals began to make use of devising to attempt to separate themselves from experimental theatre, which had this complete onus of what that was. And now I feel that we’re considerably gravitating towards the identical place that individuals consider devising or devised theatre as a sure type of theatre, whereas in devising, you may find yourself with one thing that appears very very similar to a play. It’s simply the way you arrived there’s a very completely different journey.
Emily: Yeah, I feel that’s nice. I might simply say that devising actually, the simplest definition I can consider is that it’s making an authentic piece of theatrical materials collectively as an ensemble, as a collaborative. And like Andy was saying, it may very well be one thing that finally ends up being very summary in nature and extra experimental. I feel “experimental” has turn into a foul phrase in theatre neighborhood. If you say making experimental theatre, most individuals are like, “Oh, God,” which is just too unhealthy as a result of I don’t assume they really know what it means. However I additionally assume that some individuals have seen some actually unhealthy “experimental theatre.”
So I feel the best definition is that it’s making one thing new with a bunch of individuals, not essentially privileging verbal language the way in which that almost all Western theatre does. And it may be extra summary, and it could actually find yourself being a product that appears very very similar to a standard linear play.
A part of what devising’s present, I feel, to college students is the present of concentrating on course of with out a right away product in thoughts.
Elyzabeth: Glorious. So now that we now have our definition, how do you guys introduce devising to college students? The place do you begin?
Emily: Oh, man. I imply, I begin small. I’m instructing in a university, and I’m instructing college students who’re very clever and really keen. They wish to learn to do issues, they usually wish to study completely different sorts of how in… However they’re nonetheless, the expertise of theatre could be very a lot conventional. So I begin small and I begin with having conversations with them about “what are the instruments that we now have at our disposal in theatre?” I ask them to contemplate items of theatre that they’ve seen and to consider a second that basically, actually stood out to them and a bit of theatre that they’ve seen, and to speak about that and to interrupt it down.
And usually what you discover if you do that’s that they’re not speaking about plot. Plenty of instances they’re not even actually speaking about story. They’re speaking about how all the weather got here collectively to make them really feel one thing. And so we begin there. I don’t have a particular methodology. I take advantage of every kind of various methods in and completely different texts, and generally I present them some video clips, however I additionally don’t need them to get an concept of their head of that is what devised theatre appears to be like like as a result of it actually will be such a broad vary of experiences.
So we simply begin on the very starting. What are you able to do with a light-weight? What are you able to do with a flashlight? What are you able to do with this jacket? What are you able to do, a doorbell? Simply completely different instruments that we now have at our disposal that we will use to do one thing theatrical that’s not essentially concerning the phrases.
Elyzabeth: It’s a really natural course of and also you kind of comply with their lead?
Emily: Relies on who’s within the room. Once I’m instructing a devising class, the aim is on the finish of the semester, I begin having them make like actually small, similar to micro tasks principally which can be two or three minutes in small teams. After which the aim is on the finish of the semester, all of us make one thing collectively. They determine on some kind of factor. They’re taken with exploring some kind of matter or theme or no matter, they usually should determine collectively that that’s the factor they wish to do. After which I give them little assignments and we work on it all through the second half of the semester after which present one thing that’s often twenty-ish minutes lengthy.
Elyzabeth: Cool. So that you attempt to make it very attainable for them?
Emily: Yeah, as a result of they’ve by no means completed it earlier than, they usually have all these different issues they’re doing. I imply, you’re each educators, so that they’re in all these lessons ,after which they’re additionally in all these completely different… They’re in acapella, they usually’re within the improv troupe, they usually’re in choir, they usually’re in debate, they usually’re simply doing all this different stuff. And so I wish to make it one thing that’s like they should work to do it, however that it’s one thing that we will do. It’s not past the realm of actuality for them.
Elyzabeth: What about you, Andy? The place do you guys begin?
Andy: I feel in comparable locations as Emily. So I often use two strains of pedagogies after I train devising to individuals who haven’t completed it earlier than. Now, I’ll say that we’ve labored some devising apply, so I train third 12 months conservatory college students, so that they’ve already had two years of extra conventional coaching. Nevertheless, there’s a motion trainer named Jason Bohan who has them for 2 years earlier than me, and he’s a Leqoc individual and has completed a variety of devising. And so he type of begins to work some devising practices into his motion lessons. He doesn’t essentially all the time name it that.
So after I first obtained right here, I needed to begin from starting, starting and take it rather a lot slower. I’ve been in a position to ratchet issues up a little bit quicker in years. So it does assist to have these fundamentals of bodily impulse motion and skill to maneuver on impulse and type of act on impulse beforehand. However principally what I do is I take advantage of what I’ve been utilizing all my profession as a result of I didn’t know what else to show besides for the way I used to be a practitioner.
I begin with the Six Viewpoints the way in which Mary Overlie taught it, as a result of that’s who taught me. And so I begin with Overlie’s viewpoints. I even begin them studying the primary chapter of her guide on area. However I shortly couple that with the beginnings of Second Work, which is in fact methodology that I co-created with Moises Kaufman and the remainder of Tectonic Theatre Challenge. And in that approach, we’re type of working… Generally Second Work can really feel a little bit bit extra mental. And so working collectively that grounds it in one thing that may be a little much less cerebral and extra instinctual and impulsive.
So I take advantage of these two pedagogies in tandem to… And what Second Work does is far in the identical vein as what Emily was speaking about, is it actually breaks down what we name the weather of the stage. Every instrument is a repetition, rhythm, lights, set sound, after which the checklist goes on. And we make that checklist very similar to Emily does. I ask them what moments they’ve seen that basically strike them that had been very highly effective and impacted them an ideal deal.
I’ve the identical expertise the place the responses are 95 % not text-related, if that’s a strategy to put that. So virtually by no means does anybody speak about textual content. They speak about a gesture or a lighting gesture or approach somebody moved or the way in which somebody modified one thing that they didn’t count on. And so we break that all the way down to get past the like, “It was wonderful.” Somebody all the time says, “’Defying Gravity,’ and it was wonderful.” After which we begin to say, “Okay. Effectively, what was wonderful about it?”
So moderately than solely being a client of our, how can we act as a practitioner and critique in a approach that’s useful to us in creating our personal work and likewise in analyzing the work in entrance of us? And so we break that second all the way down to scale, and costume, and light-weight, and rhythm, and pitch. And so all of the issues that went into “Defying Gravity” to attempt to make a listing of these instruments that we will then spend the remainder of semester turning into facile and turning into conversant in and discovering all of the makes use of of these issues and the way they can be utilized narratively.
So I take advantage of these two lanes of pedagogy to work them out of the area of simply deciphering a script and simply deciphering textual content into discovering what excites them and discovering what artistry is inside them by listening to the weather of the stage and what they gravitate towards and what pursuits them. After which we begin introducing one thing alongside the strains of textual content afterward within the semester in order that they get a way of what it means to jot down phrases and the way that’s completely different than writing different moments. After which we begin working with a hunch, which is Peter Brooks phrase, but additionally a phrase that we used rather a lot in Tectonic, simply this kind of “what’s tickling your mind artistically” and begin to articulate that and articulate a path of analysis to dive into these questions that make up that hunch.
So my class is a yearlong class. So by the tip of the second semester, they’re beginning to work on their very own tasks, and we work on these all through the second semester. We work in cohorts. And like Emily stated, their bandwidth is what it’s. They’re doing a variety of different issues. They’re in exhibits. They’ve obtained different lessons and all extracurricular actions that go on which can be additionally invaluable. And devising, I feel it’s vital to notice that I feel the character of devising is that it takes time.
It takes a variety of time. There’s actually no substitute for that. You’ll be able to’t actually velocity up the method. So we attempt to work on smaller chunks and likewise not… I feel that’s the benefit of, in a approach, the time limitation provides us a possibility to not fear about product as a result of I simply begin by saying, “You’ll be able to’t presumably find yourself with a type of play on the finish of this. It’s simply not humanly attainable.” So let’s simply let go of the thought of what that is going to be and work second to second and see what comes up. And I feel that’s very releasing for them, hopefully. And in order that’s how we transfer by the 12 months.
Educating college students to generate their very own materials and to make use of those self same instruments to method materials that already exists in a artistic revolutionary strategy to kind of reimagine what these performs can appear like goes to be essential to the survival of our subject.
Elyzabeth: So devising has turn into a much bigger focus in theatre coaching packages previously ten years or so. Why do you assume that’s? What do you assume the enchantment is?
Andy: The way in which the trade is altering proper now, creating one’s personal content material is turning into increasingly vital. And this devising apply provides college students a approach in in order that once they have an concept, they’ve a sensible approach of beginning to discover that concept. Plenty of instances what I hear on a regular basis is, “I’ve this nice concept, however I don’t know the place to start out.” And if after they’ve taken my class, they’re nonetheless saying that I’ve failed. That’s the check for me. It’s like if an alum comes again and I’m like, “Okay, I failed that alum as a result of they didn’t know easy methods to begin their mission.”
And that’s simply tongue in cheek. I feel actually that’s what I’m attempting to supply them is a approach in to creating their very own content material. And I feel the opposite factor concerning the trade proper now’s we’re in an inflection level, an important inflection level the place institutional theatres are closing, however in droves. And lots of people agree with the assertion that the rationale a variety of these establishments are closing is as a result of they misplaced contact with their neighborhood that they’re serving.
I feel that in some methods this work lends itself to getting out. It lends itself to site-specific work. It lends itself to together with completely different sorts of efficiency apply. It questions the function of the viewers. And we spend a variety of time utilizing the viewers as a component of the stage asking the place are they? How are you referring to them? If you would like them to take part, how do you try this? And asking about that relationship. And that’s a very vital piece of speaking items of theatre that I feel may’ve fallen off some individuals’s radar.
So as an illustration, this semester, I’m directing a musical. I’m not devising it, nevertheless it was a musical that was initially commissioned by the Public Works program on the Public Theatre. And we try to reflect that course of the place I’m partaking members of the neighborhood, and we’re going out into the neighborhood and giving workshops after which inviting them to come back and be part of the present.
So there’s this alternate, after which they’re going to usher in individuals, and now we’re going to have an precise neighborhood dialog about what the play is attempting to speak. I feel that devising kind of lends itself to issues like that, that join us extra deeply and extra straight with the neighborhood during which we’re serving or can and has the likelihood to do this.
Elyzabeth: Emily, do you might have something so as to add?
Emily: I imply, I might simply echo what Andy stated. I imply, I feel the kind of conventional subscriber mannequin for theatres is just not a helpful mannequin for many of what’s occurring at this level. I really feel like so many theatres have been taking part in it protected, they usually’re kind of reaping the results of that. And I additionally assume that that’s to not say we shouldn’t be producing performs that exist. We ought to be producing performs that exist, however there’s this… I imply, I feel learning devising and studying completely different approaches additionally presents one thing to staging these performs, to staging vital historic texts. There are all these other ways in if you be taught these devising instruments that may make productions of these performs way more compelling in case you’re not simply doing the identical factor over and again and again.
I feel this kind of instructing college students to generate their very own materials and to make use of those self same instruments to method materials that already exists in a artistic revolutionary strategy to kind of reimagine what these performs can appear like goes to be essential to the survival of our subject. I imply, I’ll say I don’t assume that theatre goes to… Folks have been predicting the dying of theatre since all of time. So I don’t assume that’s going to occur, however I do assume a minimum of within the American theatre, we’re at a fairly essential level the place it’s like, what course are we going to go in? How are we going to proceed doing this? Who’s going to assist it?
And in case you don’t have the buy-in of your neighborhood, I imply, we aren’t a rustic that basically helps the humanities on a nationwide degree on the scale that many different international locations do. So you actually do should depend on your neighborhood, and in case you’re not partaking with them, they’re not going to assist the work. And that’s only a no-brainer.
Elyzabeth: So we’ve talked about devising as this very collaborative course of. Do you assume it’s vital to have a director concerned within the devising course of, somebody who guides that imaginative and prescient, or ought to or not it’s fully collaborative?
Emily: I feel it might go both approach. I feel it’s good to have a minimum of one or two individuals within the room who’ve some eye on the entire image. However I consider a director as being a part of the collaborative staff. So I don’t usually work… I imply, I’ve just a few instances, however I don’t usually work in areas the place we’re making one thing new the place there’s not essentially somebody serving as a director, or a minimum of the persons are shifting out and in to take a look at a stage image and have a way of like, “Oh, really possibly we have to shift this over right here or there’s a possibility for lighting right here.” I feel it simply is dependent upon the group. I feel it might go both approach. I personally like having a director within the area, even when they’re not additionally performing within the piece.
Elyzabeth: What about you, Andy?
Andy: Equally, I’ve not been actually in a devising area the place there wasn’t a director or a author who had their eye on the entire thing. I imply, I have a tendency to consider it when it comes to one can do that apply nonetheless one devises do it. That’s a part of what devising is. I feel one of many crucial points of devising is suggestions. It’s very tough to see what you’re doing whilst you’re doing it. So whether or not that’s one director or one other, I feel it’s invaluable to have any person within the room. Folks do it with video and mirror, issues like that.
I’m under no circumstances saying it’s inconceivable, however I do discover it useful to… And oftentimes it’s somebody’s hunch. I feel it’s as much as the people and the corporate they’re working with and their collaborators.
Elyzabeth: And since that is such a collaborative course of, how do you tackle conflicts once they come up, particularly when somebody looks like they aren’t being heard or their concepts aren’t being included?
Emily: Fistfights, I feel.
Elyzabeth: You simply duke it out?
Emily: No, I imply, I feel you be taught.
So I’m actually good buddies with the parents in a theatre firm referred to as Buntport Theater in Denver, they usually solely make new work collectively, 5 of them now, they usually solely make new work collectively. And so they’ve been doing it for greater than twenty years. They’ve made greater than fifty authentic works collectively. And it is a query they’ve been requested rather a lot, “What do you guys do if you get upset with one another? How do you’re employed by that?” And Aaron Rollman was similar to, “We’ve had each struggle we will presumably have. We’ve simply discovered easy methods to disagree with one another. And we all know in some unspecified time in the future we will say, ‘Oh, we had this struggle on the opposite present 5 years in the past. How did that resolve? How did we get to our answer? Can we simply skip to the decision?’”
I feel if you find yourself working in this sort of work, you typically end up within the room with the identical individuals repeatedly. Most of us are additionally working with new individuals as nicely. So it’s typically about studying individuals’s communication types, saying from the start, from the start, like day one, if anybody is ever upset about something, or the second you’re beginning to really feel one thing that’s not a very good feeling, let’s have a dialog about it in order that it doesn’t turn into one thing bigger.
As a result of I personally, after I’m in an area working with different individuals, I don’t like battle. I don’t wish to be upset with individuals. Inevitably, you’re going to have moments the place you disagree about one thing that you simply’re doing, some second that you simply’re making or some component that you simply’re taking part in with. And for me, it’s simply kind of like, “Let’s speak about it. Let’s discuss it by and see if we will come to some kind of decision and see what number of other ways can we do that till we get to what we expect goes to be the…” No matter goes to serve the entire. It’s laborious. It’s a must to let your ego go at factors and simply be like, “Oh, I had this concept that I actually like, however everybody else is saying it doesn’t work, so I simply should let it go.” You simply should kill your darling generally.
I can’t faux to be the one who’s the most effective at it as a result of it may be actually laborious if you’re in battle with another person, however for me, it truly is about… I’ve discovered to not keep away from these conversations, to actually simply sit down and be like, “Okay, we have to chat about this. I wish to work by this and make it possible for we’re all on the identical web page and may do one thing collectively that all of us be ok with.”
So long as we’re speaking a couple of course of and never a product, I might say devising turns into important and that it supplies completely different pathways by the trade, which is splintering.
Elyzabeth: What about you, Andy? How do you deal with that if you find yourself engaged on issues, but additionally within the classroom?
Andy: It is very important, I feel, simply begin by recognizing that these conflicts and tensions that come up will be very inspirational and fruitful to the method as a result of inherently there’s stress within the work. And in case you can maintain the dialog work-related and attempt to keep away from “my concept,” “your concept” and critique what is occurring, then I feel it’s a little bit… It may very well be extra constructive to march by these issues that come up. And they’re going to. I feel in any actually crackly, fruitful course of, conflicts will come up. And once more, I feel that these will be advantageous.
I, within the classroom and likewise in apply, I lean rather a lot on… And at school I train the Crucial Response Course of that Liz Lerman developed as a part of her dance firm. And there’s really a guide, a pamphlet that you would be able to purchase of hers that takes you thru what that course of is. And it’s a four-step course of. I discover it very helpful. And there are a pair ways in which it’s helpful. One is that it empowers the artist within the critique course of in order that once they’re providing an concept, there’s some language round how that concept will get critiqued. And there’s additionally a course of by which the artist has, or the presenter/performer has some kind of management over how that course of goes in order that they will ask sure critique questions and ask particularly what they’re taken with listening to about after which let issues go that they’re not prepared to listen to but.
I feel that’s vital. I feel if you’re engaged on one thing, and also you’re actually engaged on how this motion sequence goes to go, and somebody’s like, “Effectively, I don’t just like the lighting.” It’s not essentially useful in that second to, since you’re not eager about lighting. And so I feel it’s useful to simply have language round what are we speaking about? What’s vital about this second? How are we speaking about it? And Liz, I feel, has completed an amazing job in fashioning language round a course of and process by the critique that’s work centered and likewise makes… In a pedagogical approach, it makes the performer accountable partially for the critique, which I feel is efficacious as a result of then they’ve to consider what they’ve been engaged on and what they want to hear about that may then additional the work.
And that’s actually the main focus is what can we are saying constructively that may let this work deepen or take the following step? The hope is each within the classroom and professionally that that’s the main focus. And clearly, all of us have ego ,and all of us have want, and all of us have aesthetics. So these clearly come into play. However having some kind of critique construction, I discovered, will be useful.
Elyzabeth: Sure. I actually use Liz Lerman in all of my lessons, and I feel that extra lecturers might apply the Liz Lerman course of to their lessons, whether or not they’re within the arts or not. It’s simply the inspiration of that method is simply so helpful and so invaluable.
In order we wrap up, I simply needed to look ahead and see how do you see theatre packages use devising as we transfer ahead in coaching the following era of younger actors, younger theatremakers? The place do you assume devising suits into that, and the place do you see it going sooner or later?
Andy: Effectively, so long as we’re speaking a couple of course of and never a product, I might say devising turns into important and that it supplies completely different pathways by the trade, which is splintering. I used to be employed by the dean of Faculty of Drama at North Carolina Faculty of the Arts, Scott Ziegler, who had simply taken over as dean. He acknowledged that though the coaching at UNCSA has all the time been very, excellent, he felt prefer it was vital to diversify the sorts of coaching that the scholars had been getting so as to reply to the place the trade was going.
So he added stronger on digicam, he added devising. He made Shakespeare really extra current within the classroom as nicely, so that you simply’re getting a variety of completely different instruments to make use of in your apply to reply to the other ways the trade goes. So the hope is that as a result of devising can assist a private inventive course of and even assist that develop and even outline it, that may present a complete avenue to entrepreneurship that I feel solely deciphering a textual content denies.
So if we consider ourselves as small companies, which I feel each performer must and possibly all the time wanted to, how is that enterprise going to outlive on this current market? And as entrepreneurs, artistic considering, artistic considering outdoors of the field might help develop that model that I don’t essentially like to speak solely in financial phrases, however I feel we, in a approach, it’s useful on this occasion to speak about how can we develop younger artists to reply to the trade after which additionally to pave the way in which within the trade for one thing new as a result of there’s a variety of issues there altering proper now, and a variety of ways in which individuals have gone by producing theatre that appear to be on their approach out or going by a giant dynamic change. So how are our college students going to reply? Let’s permit them an outlet for their very own artistic artistry, and I feel devising helps with that.
Emily: Yeah, I might agree with Andy. Even in case you’re working in a devising classroom with somebody who’s like, “I actually simply wish to be an actor in the end.” The instruments that they be taught in that class, whether or not it’s a semester-long class or a yearlong class, are going to be instruments that serve them extremely nicely as an actor for the remainder of their profession, ought to they’ve a profession in theatre, and even in movie and tv, as a result of it simply teaches you about all the instruments you might have at your disposal versus simply your physique and your voice.
The opposite factor I’d say, simply coming from a liberal arts context, as a result of I’m instructing at a small liberal arts faculty, the entire level of the liberal arts is encouraging individuals to discover the total realm of risk versus specializing in a singular component. And so for me, it makes a variety of sense at liberal arts faculties to show devising as a result of we now have college students who’re… They’re learning. They’re double majors in econ and theatre, or they’re learning biochemistry and theatre.
I’ve a pupil who’s a double main in neuroscience and theatre. So we now have these in a liberal arts context, these college students who’re curious otherwise. They wish to learn the way the completely different components of every kind of various issues on the planet work and the way they will inform one another. And that’s not solely going to make them, I feel, higher theatre practitioners, it’s additionally simply going to make them higher human beings on a bigger scale. They’re going to have the ability to go into the world and interact with a variety of completely different concepts coming at them without delay and synthesize info in methods which can be possibly extra artistic and productive. I imply, simply coming from a liberal arts ideology, it looks like type of a no brainer as nicely.
Elyzabeth: Effectively, I actually admire each of you giving me a little bit of your time right now and sharing a little bit of your expertise and your perception into the world of devising. Thanks a lot.
Emily: Thanks, Elyzabeth. Thanks, Andy.
Andy: Thanks, Elyzabeth. Thanks, Emily. It’s fantastic speaking to each of you.
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