Rubén Polendo: I imagine, as human beings, we’re designed to pursue not possible questions. We pursue love. No person reaches a given Thursday and says, “I discovered love, I am accomplished, cool. Friday, I am going to discover happiness.” The concept is, these targets change, you alter, the panorama round you adjustments. It’s this not possible objective that then units you on a journey.
Tjaša Ferme: Welcome to Theatre Tech Talks: AI, Science, and Bio Media in Theatre, a podcast produced by HowlRound Theatre Commons, a free and open platform for theatremakers worldwide.
At the moment’s visitor is Rubén Polendo, who’s the founding creative director of Theater Mitu. He and his firm work in direction of increasing the definition of theatre by way of rigorous experimentation with its type. His apply investigates transglobal efficiency, interdisciplinary collaborative fashions, the performativity of non-violence, the geopolitics of objects, up to date mythology, investigations of the ritual and the sacred.
Oh my God, Ruben, it is such a pleasure to have you ever right here. This sounds so lovely, and so interesting, and I really feel like why I do theatre, too. I am additionally fascinated by all these items.
Rubén: Implausible. I am excited to be right here too, for precisely that motive. Your work is so thrilling, and there is such a lovely overlap that it is all the time inspiring to be in a room with an artist, so thanks.
Tjaša: Thanks. This podcast is all about creating new applied sciences, inventing new stuff, and utilizing these applied sciences in theatre, so actually, the intersection of what new tech is providing, and what we are able to take for ourselves, and for the human interplay throughout the bounds of theatre. I am simply curious, the place does your drive and impetus to do that come from?
Rubén: That is such a fantastic framing for the usage of know-how in artwork, and in theatre efficiency. For me, it is a quite simple route. My coaching of many moons in the past does not come out of artwork, or theatre, or efficiency. It comes out of science. I’ve an undergrad and a grad diploma in biochemistry, and my whole framework has to do with the interjection of innovation, of taking a look at programs, and of the function of know-how in that. When Theater Mitu was began nearly twenty-five years in the past, it actually was began from that time. It was began legitimately as a biochemistry laboratory. It simply occurred to be that our medium was not organic and chemical programs, it was picture making, and storytelling, and humanities apply. The framework, from the start, was actually a deep engagement with know-how, much less as an aesthetic precept and extra actually as a instrument, as a instrument of investigation, as a instrument of interrogation.
By definition, I feel when one interrogates actually diligently with these instruments, they in time turn into half and parcel of the work. In biochemistry, there is a method that sure outcomes cannot be proven with out the know-how at play. Equally, the know-how began coming into the performativity, and the aesthetic palette, nevertheless it was all the time somewhat disorienting. Whether or not it is critically, or assessment clever, people will converse of know-how as a design ingredient, which isn’t in any respect how we method it, for us, it is truly, once more, a instrument, after which it itself both bakes itself into the work or not. For me, it actually begins from the purpose of science.
Tjaša: I like that you just stated that. I like that you just introduced within the critics, as a result of I’ve a critique of our theatre critics whose method appear to be that they are critiquing the design, or the present facet of it. I feel that I can say in your work, and for our work, definitely we’re fascinated by not solely how the sausage is made, however can we make a brand new sausage, and what’s the course of? Can we be creative, and collaborative on this method? If I needed to create gimmicks and methods, it would be less expensive, and simpler, and fewer time-consuming to do them. If any theatre critics are listening to this, we want you to step up and get educated in find out how to correctly look into works like that. What has been your private expertise on this realm, of receiving criticism?
Rubén: I feel there’s two issues. One, as an organization who actually is structured… the whole lot of group is structured as a laboratory. I like extending the “How the sausage is made” metaphor to creating new sausage, or new methods of constructing sausage, as a result of I feel our work is finest learn as a complete. In different phrases, we’re, after all, fascinated by participating an viewers in a significant method, and impacting an viewers, however our hope is that one work seeds the following one seeds the following one. it in that entire framework turns into, in some methods extra compelling, some methods extra fascinating, which is why I feel we as an organization set our personal house up at Mitu580, which is the warehouse that we inhabit in Brooklyn, as a result of we wish to be in dialog with a neighborhood. We do not wish to have a transactional house the place you come and see our showmanship, and you then depart.
We truly wish to be in a relational house. Essentially the most significant essential house has been that essential house, which, as any individual who’s been in relationship with our work, who’s seeing that what we’re trying is definitely interjecting maybe in another way, or extra meaningfully within the subsequent piece, after which radically totally different within the subsequent one, so that there is a continuum of the dialog, versus a person who comes simply to see the showmanship high quality. Once more, there’s little interest in creating work that is not impactful and efficient, however we’re in a relentless state of discovering. That is one more reason that our know-how is a component and parcel of how we work as an organization. We’re a everlasting group of artists, as a result of we’ve a complete coaching methodology which is each in how we make work, how we have interaction management, and the way we prepare in know-how in order that our collaborators within the firm are as a lot generative creatures as they’re technologists, as they’re arts apply aesthetic-leaning people.
Tjaša: That is wonderful. I’m if you happen to may converse somewhat bit, if you happen to can share this with us, about your methodology? I am certain that got here out of a necessity for considerably of setting of formality, actually, of how people work collectively.
Rubén: Yeah, that is proper. I feel there’s three elements to our coaching. One is what I am going to time period our analysis as an organization. How will we prepare as artists, researchers? It is not simply analysis in preparation for our work, nevertheless it’s analysis in how we construct our firm, how we make our programs, how we additional develop our coaching. That may seem like conversations with fellow artists, that may seem like conversations and engagements with people in different fields about their very own programs of creation, how they maintain house, how they generate collaboration. That additionally contains international conversations. We get so myopic in our personal panorama, and so to me, it is fascinating to see a complete vary of different artists interrogate comparable issues. There’s that facet of it.
Then there is a bodily coaching that we do as an organization, of how we come collectively in bodily house and work. Once we first began actually delving deeply into know-how, there was this inheritance of, “I am not going to the touch it, as a result of it is not what I do,” or “I haven’t got sufficient coaching to interact in that system, or that coding, or that programming, or that {hardware}.”
For us, the thought is to take away that, and to know that what I can convey is my experience as a theatremaker, as a director, as a designer, and actually, start to misuse it. In that misuse comes a brand new use. Considered one of my favourite issues is when people come and see among the know-how that we’re utilizing, they usually go, “Wait, you are doing what with it? That is not what it was designed for.” I like that. After all, it wasn’t designed for it. We’re artists. There’s a complete premise of misbehaving, and misusing it. There is a bunch of know-how that, after all, we use at its finest, however I like that, once more, transdisciplinarity of bringing your self-discipline right into a self-discipline exterior of your consolation zone, or of your experience, and realizing that one thing new is born. Know-how is so able to be misused in that method.
Tjaša: I like this. This truly jogs my memory of Naveen Jain, who’s an entrepreneur, and he all the time delves into one thing he does not know something about, after which develops, launches new firms and new merchandise, however from the newbie’s perspective. He says that mainly, if you happen to hold working round the issue that has been established thirty years in the past, and discovering methods round it, there isn’t any creativity. In case you method it as a newbie, and ask the silly questions, you even have a chance of attending to a brand new place.
Rubén: That is proper, and acknowledging that, in reality, you do have experience from one other space you could convey into it. I am going to go to tremendous artwork for a neater metaphor, however the concept is, a filmmaker can convey all of their filmmaking abilities, and really make a portray. That portray will under no circumstances seem like the work that somebody with a pedigree and coaching in portray does, however it’s nonetheless one thing, and there’s a chance that that filmmaker, in interjecting these disciplines, may have interaction with a complete historied discipline in a brand new method. You might take a look at that and say, “That portray is admittedly cinematic.” I am being reductive, however I feel the thought is, in crossing these areas is fascinating.
One thing value noting is, I am Mexican. I grew up in Northern Mexico. My whole life I grew up on this borderland state, within the north of Mexico, the U.S. could be very current, this crossing backwards and forwards. I noticed that, despite the fact that a very long time in the past I definitely acknowledged that is a part of my identification as a borderlander, I noticed that is truly additionally a part of my identification as an artist, which is the thought of truly crossing borders. The minute that you just inform me as an artist, “Oh no, you possibly can’t do that as a result of you do not have the coaching,” I instantly wish to construct a bridge and cross it. In case you inform me, “Ruben, you did not go to a dance college, so you possibly can’t choreograph,” I might convey all of my experience, and choreograph with that. If you inform me, “That know-how is somewhat previous your coaching,” I really feel like, “Give it to me.” I truly wish to construct that bridge. This borderlander stance actually turns into a method of approaching not solely my very own identification, and never solely collaboration, not solely artwork making, but in addition the engagement with know-how.
Tjaša: It seems like the acute viewpoint and dedication that you just convey to making an attempt one thing is precisely what makes it good, no matter your pedigree, and of the institutional constructing blocks of what we take into account schooling, and the proper approaches to start out one thing.
Rubén: That is proper, and once more, there are an unimaginable variety of people within the firm who’re so splendidly skilled in a complete host of know-how. It definitely begins with sharing data, not negating it, for certain. If somebody sitting subsequent to me can present me find out how to use this, then nice. I am not going to negate that data, and say, “No, let me misuse it.” Once more, I feel it is about not inventing limits, notably in a artistic stance. If we have been speaking about the usage of know-how in medication, then do not give it to me, give it to somebody who has a coaching. Using know-how in artwork, to me, it is about discovering. I feel actually, it is about taking a look at it as a instrument, it truly is, and it goes again to my very own coaching as a biochemist. Actually, that is the work of the corporate, however that extends to theatre as effectively.
To us, theatre is a instrument. I haven’t got a romance with theatre. In different phrases, I do not essentially really feel like I like the scent of the theatre seats, and the curtain, and the stage. To me, it is a instrument. It is a instrument that invitations that transdisciplinary. It is a instrument that invitations the collaboration that creates innovation. All of it feels actually wealthy in its chance once you interject the instrument of theatre, the instrument of know-how, the instrument of efficiency and so forth.
Tjaša: I’m wondering if there was one core query that you just had, that led you from biochemistry to theatre? I keep in mind, after I self-reflect, for me, after I first began doing science theatre, that was for The Feminine Function Mannequin Mission, I actually needed to know the way my consciousness works as an actor. How am I totally different after I’m taking part in Girl Macbeth versus after I’m taking part in Kate from Taming of the Shrew? How does the character inform my very own mind, and what does that imply when it comes to consciousness? After all, my query was insane, and terribly bold, and it seems that no one is aware of something about consciousness, and there are all these totally different faculties, however in the end, nonetheless no one is aware of for certain something about consciousness. I can actually say, this was my core query that led me to science theatre. What was the core query that led you from biochemistry to theatre?
I imagine as human beings, we’re designed to pursue not possible questions. We pursue love. No person reaches a given Thursday and says, “I discovered love, I am accomplished, cool. Friday, I am going to discover happiness.”… It’s this not possible objective that then units you on a journey.
Rubén: Yeah, it is a fantastic query, and thanks for sharing yours. I am into your query, and really, mine is said to it. For me, it comes from the thought of a complete second within the engagement between an viewers and artwork. What I imply by a complete second is, that second, and we have all skilled it, I feel everybody’s skilled it at the very least as soon as, if not many instances, which is that this second the place the paintings in no matter form, type, house, you title it, it engages the mental a part of who you’re, it engages the emotional a part of who you’re. It engages your eyes, it engages your ears, nevertheless it additionally engages your spirit. When all of these issues occur in the identical second, when the syncopation of viewing, in different phrases, I am going to converse of efficiency, which is, I’ve used one thing humorous after which I chortle. There’s syncopation, a backwards and forwards.
When one thing occurs, and all of these soften, it actually is a snap, and you are feeling it, you get the chills, there’s an eruptious laughter, there is a gasp, it is a second that goes “swoosh,” one thing occurs, and you are feeling it. Once I say the spirit, I do not imply in any spiritual or theological method, I actually imply one thing that transcends the boundaries of your individual human physique. You are feeling linked to the individuals there. For me, in my biochemistry language, the analysis query is, how are you going to create an paintings that’s that second from starting to finish? Is that even doable? Would the viewers collapse, and say, “Get me out of right here?” Would the artist be like, “I am unable to do that anymore.” What would occur? Such as you, for me, that query grew to become an not possible query, and I like that, as a result of it aligns with a deep perception of mine that, I imagine as human beings, we’re designed to pursue not possible questions.
We pursue love. No person reaches a given Thursday and says, “I discovered love, I am accomplished, cool. Friday, I am going to discover happiness.” The concept is, these targets change, you alter, the panorama round you adjustments. It’s this not possible objective that then units you on a journey. This concept of this entire second actually turns into the drive of the corporate. It truly is the inspiration of the corporate. One of many first issues that I launched was that, so as to do this, we could not perform as a contractor firm that employed individuals per undertaking. There was a necessity for this biochemistry mannequin, which is that you’re working with the identical people. You’ll be able to convey in numerous consultants, and totally different collaboratives, however there is a core group that’s obsessing about this analysis query. How do you put together for that entire second? How do you prepare? What do you generate? How do you have interaction audiences? That continues to be the drive of the corporate, and at this second, know-how has performed an enormous function.
I jokingly typically inform my college students, examine again with me in twenty years. We is likely to be obsessive about grime, and rocks, and know-how has gone out the window. For me, it is once more, not a romance round know-how. In the mean time, it is a instrument to research that query. I am going to be part of you within the impossibility of your query, as a result of it units the journey. It has set us on this journey.
Tjaša: Completely, completely agree. On the sidelines, you talked about your core firm, and just a bit bit from a producorial perspective, I am curious, how do you nourish a core group of actors and collaborators by way of, often your works take about two years of prep and investigation till they’re prepared for a efficiency. In American theatre, we largely know the mannequin of both repertory theatres, big theatres, or actors which are, for probably the most half, compensated across the time of performances. How do you navigate this, and the way do you nourish your actors?
Rubén: Thanks for that query. I am all the time very pleased with that facet of our group. I feel for us, there is a framework as artists have interaction within the firm, and in the end, turn into firm members. One of many first is that each artist in Theater Mitu actually identifies as a hyphenate. There’s already an inherent interdisciplinary in them, after which a transdisciplinary curiosity.
The opposite is, individuals will ask me, what is the distinction between somebody who’s within the firm and somebody who you’re employed with that is not within the firm? Which sounds somewhat, you are in otherwise you’re out, which isn’t the intent. To me, the distinction is a really easy one, which is, the people who’re a part of the corporate have determined that making and constructing the corporate is a part of their arts apply. That opens up a complete different system of assist, as a result of what which means is, as a corporation, Theater Mitu not solely creates this new works, however we even have 5 different applications that we run which are teaching programs, they’re improvement applications, they’re interdisciplinary collaborative applications, they’re know-how assist applications. It’s the firm that runs that group. Unexpectedly, your livelihood is not merely coming from the making of a present.
I am going to give an instance. An expensive firm member, Monica Sanborn, is after all a key collaborator on this work, however she’s additionally the producer of our hybrid arts lab work, and in addition capabilities as one of many assist programs for our artists at dwelling. Unexpectedly, it begins to create the tapestry that, as artists, a artistic livelihood, nevertheless it turns into an in-house. By definition, there are firm members… this isn’t monastic, so firm members are additionally engaged on different initiatives, however that framework permits for a flexibility that permits firm members to interact in different initiatives however nonetheless have a house that may, over the yr, be their assist construction.
I am very pleased with the truth that it creates a extremely significant assist construction, and you’ve got a house to rely upon. We even have full-time firm members who’re full-time employees, and that is one other construction. For the corporate, from very early on, once we began, I made a dedication to paying the corporate a residing wage in any engagement, even when it meant we developed the work extra slowly, which is admittedly what occurred. That grew to become a boon, as a result of then we may percolate on the work. Livelihood is admittedly simply time. It simply offers individuals time and focus. That is somewhat little bit of the patchwork, and it is an ongoing apply for me and for the remainder of us. How will we make it extra strong? Shifting into our house added a complete host of different lovely wants which are answered by staffing for the corporate members, and so forth.
Tjaša: Good construction. I am additionally tremendous pleased with you. That is lovely, and that is uncommon.
Rubén: Thanks.
Tjaša: I am interested by Utopian Hotline. You carried out it at BAM, in partnership with SETI Institute, Arizona State College’s interplanetary initiative, and Brooklyn Unbiased Center Faculty. I like all your companions. Are you able to converse somewhat bit about how you bought these companions, and the way they have been truly concerned in creating this undertaking?
Rubén: Actually, our work is born from a really pure intuition, or from very pure instincts. As we have been all, as a world, navigating the pandemic, we began a apply as an organization of coming collectively each Friday as an organization on Zoom, simply to examine in with one another. Actually, simply to be like, “Are you washing your apples? What’s taking place?” It was that second. As issues started to relax, and both we started to normalize or the scenario normalized, we began speaking nearly artwork, and about how we have been feeling. Considered one of our nice considerations was hope, and the loneliness that was being created by this fractured second. Was there an absence of hope? An organization member, Dennis, had this actually nearly embarrassingly naive intuition to arrange this hotline impressed by these Eighties hotlines, that advised you, “Name this quantity, and inform us what you concentrate on this radio station.”
He was with household in Portland, and he went round Portland on his bicycle within the useless of winter, and put up these indicators that stated, “How do you think about a extra excellent future? Please name this quantity.” It did not say artwork, it did not say Theater Mitu, it did not say something. In truth, the poster was very eighties, seventies wanting, put it in all places. We have been certain no one would name, after which, individuals known as. Tons and tons and tons of individuals known as, and the Friday conferences with Mitu grew to become us listening to those voicemails. The voicemails have been lovely, hilarious. Folks cried on it, individuals prayed for us. Folks sang to us, individuals advised us jokes. Folks put their children on the telephone. It was actually humanity saying, “There’s hope.” Even occupied with it makes me very emotional.
We felt like we have been holding this actually lovely archive, this snapshot, not of the longer term, however of the futures, and felt like, how will we maintain an artwork house that may share these with audiences? That actually started Utopian Hotline, which is known as a theatrical set up that invitations you to nearly sit inside this archive. These texts are musicalized, spoken, technologized, visualized, and even the best way you do it’s, you are on headphones. It is this set up with 4 performers. You are on these cozy white cushions on a pink carpet. Considered one of my favourite issues is, individuals do not like leaving when it is over. It is about an hour lengthy, and other people simply keep, as a result of the voice messages hold entering into your head. Everyone feels actually taken care of in a unbroken second, the place I feel that is necessary.
Once we began dreaming up the undertaking early on, we do that with all Mitu initiatives, the query is, what are the home windows that we’re opening which are letting in new concepts, and new imaginations? Who’re our companions? I feel for us, we’re the group of artists who’re bringing the artwork query. Who’s bringing the opposite questions? Who’s bringing the science query, the neighborhood query? We actually dream up companions, and it is the silliest sport, I am going to name it, which is, if we may work with anybody on this, who would it not be? Then we attain out, we simply attain out. Belief me, we attain out to at least one hundred individuals, and out of that we get responses. Some turn into, “Not now.” Some turn into, “How fascinating, let’s keep in dialog. Some turn into, “We have been simply speaking about that.”
We developed this actually lovely dialog with Seti, which is the seek for extraterrestrial intelligence, which is born out of NASA and MIT, and has a extremely unimaginable assortment of astrophysicists, of astronauts, of scientists, of physicists who come collectively, not likely to search for aliens per se, however they’re taking a look at sound waves, and what’s bouncing by way of the universe. They have been huge within the dialog of the golden file that was despatched with humanity’s message. That began that dialog. We additionally felt we needed to talk to what I feel are the best keepers of hope, that are youngsters. We partnered with Brooklyn Unbiased, which is a constitution college right here in Brooklyn. If you wish to hear an astounding and visionary take a look at the longer term, ask a ten-year-old. Really, we spoke to astronauts and astrophysicists who gave us these unimaginable solutions, after which a sixth grader advised us the identical factor in clearer phrases.
Tjaša: I like that, and I’m not shocked. There’s simply this new analysis that is popping out that mainly, 98 p.c of everyone born are geniuses, and that ultimately, the college system simply suffocates the genius out of you by the point you’re ten. Thank God you spoke to ten-year-olds. In case you spoke to an eleven, you may’ve been too late.
Rubén: Sure, it is true. We’ve this lovely recording of a youthful scholar, she have to be perhaps seven, and she or he tells us, very in a sassy method, she does not perceive the confusion in regards to the future. She says the longer term is correct now. Each second is the longer term, and she or he’s actually adamant about it. Once we converse to an astrophysicist who’s speaking about our notion of time, and the concept the longer term is an phantasm, and actually, this second is the longer term, we reside sooner or later, they’re saying the identical factor, which is, listen. Be hopeful now, not simply be hopeful that you will be hopeful. It was this lovely name to motion, and our companions have been actually fantastic.
I am going to inform you, as somewhat footnote, by way of a collaboration with SETI, we’re a part of one thing known as lunar codex. The lunar codex is a extremely thrilling undertaking that, with one of many small shuttles which are going to be the moon, it can have an archive of up to date paintings. We’re sending Utopian Hotline to the moon.
Tjaša: Stunning.
Rubén: The concept is that, when that detaches from the moon, it will journey by way of house, and it is supposed to be acquired both by different sentient beings or by us tons of and tons of of years from now. To me, to ship out the query in regards to the future, and about hope into the longer term has been a extremely transferring factor. Lookup the lunar codex. It is lovely, and it is a beautiful undertaking.
Tjaša: I’ll. Wow. This undertaking that we’re going to speak about now shouldn’t be actually out but. It is nonetheless within the making, it is nonetheless in its rising phases. It is humorous how I bought to it. I used to be a juror on Belle Getty’s grant, and after I noticed the proposal for (Holy) Blood, I simply fell in love with it. Mainly, (Holy) Blood explores inherited cultural trauma by way of the historical past of a younger boy who grows as much as be a assassin. What causes individuals to commit violent acts? How will we escape from the traumas of our previous? Holy Blood attracts freely from Alejandro Jodorowsky’s movie, I like Jodorowsky, Santa Sangre, and director Ruben Palendo’s childhood experiences attending Pentecostal revival church buildings in Juarez, Mexico. So wonderful. Inform me extra. What have been your childhood experiences in Juarez, Mexico?
Rubén: All of the initiatives are, after all, very private initiatives, however this can be a notably private undertaking for me. As I discussed, I grew up in Mexico. I grew up going to Pentecostal church buildings my entire life, and these are actually fascinating areas as a result of they’re, after all, spiritual areas. They’re, after all, very set in a basic learn of the Christian Bible, however they’re additionally neighborhood areas. Although it’s a religion and a perception system, with quite a lot of respect to my dad and mom, that I’ve walked away from, there may be nonetheless this bittersweetness to the reminiscence of that neighborhood, and the way a baby sees that reminiscence. From very early on, I feel I used to be in highschool perhaps, I noticed Jodorowsky’s movie, Santa Sangre, and was floored. Was floored as a result of it’s coping with a baby’s lens, within the case of the film, by way of seeing his mom engaged on this deeply consuming religion, and his love for his mom makes him love that religion.
It is also about, between his mom and his father, this neighborhood that is created round. When these areas turn into injurious, I feel the grownup model is, you simply transfer away from these communities. As everyone knows, by way of the lens of a kid, it is a very totally different framework, as a result of that is the one neighborhood you may have. There’s each this realizing repelling to that injury, but in addition this magnetization, as a result of there’s love, and there is neighborhood. Jodorowsky does this good factor the place within the narrative, the kid’s in a position to try to carry each of these realities, which after all, turn into an excessive amount of. Jodorowsky then finds us right into a second chapter of the movie, the place the younger boy has grown up, and we come to study that he has dedicated and continues to commit these horrible actions.
Jodorowsky does one thing fascinating, which is, I feel to not make it such a direct psychological drama, he actually hyper-theatricalizes each these horrific acts in addition to the reminiscence house. It enters the realm of mythology. You are now not having a response for this poor child, and the horrible issues. You start to nearly see your self within the nuances of it, not essentially within the actions of it. The movie was actually efficient, and resonating. Over a few years I have been bringing it to the corporate, to see how we interject with it.
The very last thing I am going to say is that Jodorowsky, very a lot aligning together with his personal beliefs, the movie actually explores, by the tip of it, how will we heal from that? Is there therapeutic? In that second, you notice that little boy, and that man is definitely a proxy for society. Can one thing break a lot that you just let go of the assumption that it may well heal, or do you’re taking a stance the place you maintain on to the assumption that it may well heal, even whereas the factor continues to be cracking, even whereas the factor continues to be injurious? That began resonating to us on this second. It is not simply hope in regards to the future, nevertheless it’s hope that therapeutic is definitely half and apply of the longer term, even once more, as increasingly more issues are fracturing our world, our society, the environment.
It actually spoke, and so we began delving into, how will we theatricalize that and the way will we take Jodorowsky’s materials and start to interact with it? Once more, know-how turns into half and parcel of that. We began participating with sensors and reactivities, as a result of the movie, the characters and narrative are so reactive from one to the opposite that we have been making an attempt to imitate that, and to create proxies for among the characters by the use of what we time period puppets, however are literally these technological innovations of screens and containers, and so forth. In case you hear me being somewhat clumsier about it than Utopian Hotline, it is as a result of we are actually making it. I simply really feel like, examine again with me in six months, as a result of I is likely to be saying, “By no means thoughts, it’s now a dance with microphones.” For now, I feel the exploration continues to disclose one thing about that therapeutic house.
Tjaša: No, I get it. By being immersed in it, you see the multiplicity of it. You see this kaleidoscopic picture of all these views that coexist, and even the paradoxes coming at one another, however paradoxes all the time have to coexist.
Rubén: Yeah, that is proper. For people who could not know the movie, as I discussed, the movie follows somewhat boy. His father owns a circus, runs a circus. His mom is a part of a Christian cult that venerates a saint who’s misplaced her arms. Already, we begin with that. By way of a sequence of actually violent interactions between his mom and his father, the daddy kills the mom, and set off warning for folk, because it will get somewhat gory, in so doing, he replicates what’s occurred to the mom saint, and removes her arms. It is a very violent second. That is the core trauma. What occurs is, once we meet the younger character as an grownup, he is been institutionalized. Once we meet him, it is as a result of there is a name to his window, and it’s his now armless mom who helps him escape. In so doing, he should turn into her arms.
For the remainder of the film, once more, for folk who have not seen it, he’s truly behind her being her arms. It is truly the mom who kills individuals, and notably, he kills any lady that the male character is interested in. Every time he tries to be romantic, the mom seems, takes over his arms, and proceeds to kill that lady. She’s not going to let anybody harm her little boy. Primary, the theatricality of these scenes is unimaginable, as a result of the arms actually belong to the mom, a lot so that you just imagine it. He’s actually saying, “Do not make me do that.” What occurs, and this can be a spoiler alert, and I am so sorry, by the point we attain the tip of the movie, this male character discovers love, actual love, and he cannot convey himself to hurt that. He truly would come to comprehend that in reality, the mom died when she misplaced her arms, and the remaining has been a figment of his personal trauma, and his creativeness, and he is been haunted to do this.
You notice that what Jodorowsky has accomplished has created this actually intense metaphor, and I am not suggesting that each one of us are haunted on this method, of the best way that childhood trauma haunts us, and the best way that we truly invent a story the place that’s what’s controlling us. Jodorowsky’s invitation is, these are your arms, not the arms of that youngster, however these are your arms. Sure, the method of therapeutic, and sure, the method of reclaiming them is troublesome. The movie ends with that revelation, and a lot so, once more, the spoiler alert is, he is captured by the police and so forth. On this quite simple second, the police say, “Put your fingers up,” and the character seems at his fingers and says, “They’re my fingers.” It is the primary time he realizes, and he each takes duty for the horrors, but in addition frees himself.
Once more, Jodorowsky does this magical factor the place in some way, it doesn’t turn into ripped from the headline information. It turns into mythology, it turns into this historic textual content of some types, or it reads like a fable. For me, I feel your entire alchemy of that story, and the way will we not pornographize the violence, however truly proceed to mythologize it, in any other case, we get an excessive amount of blood on us. It truly desires to be this metaphor, and Jodorowsky does a extremely elegant job, which is why we’re not essentially leaving the movie within the mud, however utilizing elements of it, and interesting it. That is actually the core experiment of it.
Tjaša: You are additionally utilizing puppets in it, which have these sensors and cameras embedded in them, which can be then projected, mainly, as their viewpoint. Unexpectedly, these puppets are humanized, and have a viewpoint. Are you able to inform us somewhat bit about, what is the relationship between these robots, these puppets versus people? Who’re the characters?
Rubén: Yeah, I am glad to listen to you name them puppets, robots, as a result of we ourselves do not know what to name them. In our final workshop, which we name a laboratory, one in every of them has grown to be what would finest be described as this big field that’s twelve ft broad by 5 ft… sorry, twelve ft tall by 5 ft broad. Has sensors inside it, and it bleeds on you pretend blood. It is a complete theatrical factor, and it has a entrance that is simply… we checked out it, and we have been like, “That puppet has grown. I do not know what it’s anymore.” I feel it is precisely what you simply stated, it is about affording totally different factors of view.
I feel the factor that theatre can achieve this efficiently is invite a spread of factors of entry. In probably the most conventional sense, if I’m staging a scene from Hamlet on stage, the invitation is admittedly to the whole lot of the stage. I can’t management what your entry level is. You might be taking a look at Ophelia, the individual subsequent to you at Hamlet, the individual subsequent to you on the mild. To me, that is a extremely democratic engagement with the paintings, as a result of everyone has the totally different entry factors. Somebody may be specializing in the music.
Our hope is to interact, with (Holy) Blood, with the unique movie, and create these a number of entry factors, and to create these vary of factors of view, in order that the music is a viewpoint. The screens are viewpoint. The puppets, and I exploit the time period fairly capaciously, the puppets are a unique viewpoint. The cameras are a unique viewpoint, in order that one begins to have some full empathy that the scenario shouldn’t be a forward-facing scenario, that harm shouldn’t be a one viewpoint scenario, that hurt shouldn’t be a one viewpoint scenario.
Once more, none of it’s actually didactic when it comes to proposing life, so subsequently, really feel dangerous for it, or perceive it. It truly is, simply see it in its fullness, and maybe that begins to decode it. Standpoint is the beautiful touchstone, and entry for the viewers.
Tjaša: Stunning. You even have gyroscopes in these puppets, robots. What’s actually the story of proximity and distance right here?
Rubén: Distance is a extremely necessary factor. It is humorous how we use that in our poetics on this planet. Any individual is emotionally disconnected, and we’ll say, “Hey, you are very distant proper now.” We’re actually obsessive about the connection between each our bodies in house, and object and physique, and so forth. How can we as an viewers expertise that? Subsequently, we as artists dilate it. On its most straightforward degree, the thought is, this is an object. The nearer you get, if we connect a sensor that has a sound, it will go louder, louder, louder, louder, rather less loud. That sensitivity with sensors can exist in a 360, so we are able to start to find the article, the puppet or the field. Subsequently, truly manifesting the emotional, I can curate that sound to let you already know that object doesn’t prefer it once you get near them, however that does not must be a sound. That sound might be pretend blood, it might be water, it might be one thing reactive, however the depth of it may be in relationship to proximity. How do you start to create emotional and character sketches with that concept? Keep tuned.
Tjaša: Yeah, I adore it, as a result of hastily, it is so advanced. Unexpectedly, you may have 360 factors.
Rubén: That is proper.
Tjaša: Which may be fully totally different. You method me from my again, and really, I pee on you. You method me from my left, and I wish to kiss you.
Rubén: That is precisely proper. To me, it is truly about… actually, by picture I imply each sound and picture, nevertheless it’s about creating pictures that invite the viewers to be a storyteller, to be like, “Ah, subsequently.” It is a stance that I like when our work does to our audiences. It is not a passive engagement, the place you are merely receiving a narrative from us, nevertheless it’s truly fairly an lively one, the place you are receiving pictures which are inviting you to really convey these fractures collectively. This concept of a number of experiences is admittedly thrilling. Yeah, the gyroscope does that 360, and once more, I’ve a giant smile on my face, I feel you possibly can attest to this, which is, it is simply so tasty to start to get an emotional influence from these technological instruments.
We’ll be exploring, exploring, after which hastily I take a look at the remainder of the corporate and we’re crying, as a result of any individual selected a sound, and the form of the puppet, and the proximity, and you are like, “I’m so moved by that.” Then it is as much as us to then contextualize that, and provides it a elevate, in order that it turns into a extremely beautiful picture to carry.
Tjaša: Stunning. Are all characters puppets, or do you even have some human actors on stage?
Rubén: Yeah, so that is how Mitu talks about new initiatives: These are the issues that we all know.
Tjaša: Okay.
Rubén: There are these reactive constructions, we’ll name them puppets for now. Keep tuned, they might be twelve ft tall and 4 ft broad, or they stands out as the measurement of my hand. There are performers on stage. We’ve re-scored your entire musical soundscape in order that it aligns with that reactivity, in order that it is baked in there. There’s some language that we’ve interjected that can be sung. There’s this pretty immersive fracture of a number of screens, in order that we have fractured elements of the movie into this three-dimensionality. In the mean time, there may be some manifestation of different characters as disembodied voices, which are voiced and manipulated by the performers. These are the issues that we all know. There’s quite a lot of pretend blood, I am excited to say.
Tjaša: Is it minty?
Rubén: It is minty, it is recent. There’s a unprecedented quantity of pretend blood.
Tjaša: Wow.
Rubén: The house is roofed in plastic from prime to backside. It is extremely deliberately very pretend blood, as a result of we wish to keep on this fable house. It has quite a lot of tongue in cheek to it, however I feel nonetheless makes an influence. Subsequently, that is why I discussed that a few of these puppets react by the use of that blood. Once more, it doesn’t suggest that they bleed, it implies that it might bleed at you as one other performer engages, or if they’re contained in the puppet. We’ll see.
Tjaša: The puppet may bleed on the operator. She’s like, “You aren’t the boss of me.”
Rubén: Nicely, that is what simply occurred within the final laboratory, the big field you could go within them. It simply bled on the individual inside as an allergic response to that which controls the—
Tjaša: Wow, autoimmune illness system.
Rubén: Form of a social set of autoimmune, which is fascinating.
Tjaša: I am so excited. I am unable to wait to see it. Oh my God.
Rubén: It should premiere on the finish of April and Might of subsequent yr, of 2024, at Mitu580. I am going to ship the hyperlink, and please be part of us for a extremely bloody journey with Theater Mitu’s (Holy) Blood.
Tjaša: Excellent, unbelievable. Thanks a lot, Ruben. This was so lovely, and I am simply so enthusiastic about your work.
Rubén: Oh my God, thanks for having me. Actually inspiring to speak to you.
Tjaša: Likewise.
This podcast is produced as a contribution to HowlRound Theatre Commons. You could find extra episodes of this present, and different HowlRound reveals wherever you discover podcasts. In case you love this podcast, I certain hope you probably did, put up a score and write a assessment on these platforms. This helps different individuals discover us. In case you’re in search of extra progressive and disruptive content material, go to howlround.com.
