Elyzabeth Gregory Wilder: Welcome to Instructing Theatre, a podcast concerning the follow and pedagogy of theatre schooling produced for HowlRound Theatre Commons, a free and open platform for theatremakers worldwide. I’m your host, playwright and theatre professor Elyzabeth Gregory Wilder.
Thanks for becoming a member of us for Instructing Theatre. On this episode, we’ll be speaking about collaboration with Padraic Lillis and Jenn Goff. Jenn Goff is the chair of the theatre program at Centre Faculty in Danville, Kentucky. An actor, director, improviser, dramaturg, scholar, and cat mother, Jenn’s analysis focuses on up to date comedian girls playwrights, in addition to comedian and feminist principle extra broadly. She earned her BA from the College of Portland, her MA from the College of South Carolina, and her PhD from Wayne State College. She’s a co-founder of the Distracted Globe Theatre Firm, in addition to Etudes, on-line journal for rising students in theatre. Welcome, Jenn.
Jenn Goff: Hello, Elyzabeth.
Elyzabeth: And now we have Padraic Lillis, the founding creative director of the Farm Theater. He’s a author, director, and trainer. He hosts The Farm Theater’s podcast, Bullpen Periods. He’s an organization member of the LAByrinth Theater Firm and a lifelong Yankees fan.
Padraic Lillis: Hey, Elyzabeth. Nicely, thanks for having us.
Elyzabeth: Thanks, guys, a lot for being with us in the present day. Once we began this challenge, I knew that we needed to do an episode on collaboration as a result of theatre is, at its core, a collaborative artwork. I needed to start out, truly, with Padraic. You run a company, the Farm Theater, that offers theatre departments a chance to collaborate with a playwright to create a brand new play. And Jenn, you’ve directed considered one of these tasks. So I needed to start out by inviting Padraic to simply form of give us an summary of how that challenge works, as a result of I feel it’s a very great program that’s distinctive in what it gives theatre packages. So may you inform us just a little bit about what you guys do?
Padraic: I’ll. The Farm Theater aim is to domesticate early profession artists by workshop productions and mentoring, and our major program is the Faculty Collaboration Undertaking, which, in partnership with three schools, three theatre packages, we fee an early profession playwright. We choose the playwright. The playwright has to have a voice that is ready to write for younger folks, and by that, I outline thirty years and youthful in order that undergraduate actors can respectfully obtain it.
And likewise they need to have one thing they need to write and work on for a 12 months as a result of they’re going to develop it over that educational 12 months and be in dialog with the scholars about. And once we began, the very first thing, as soon as we picked the playwright and the theme they’re occupied with writing in, we arrange a Zoom, earlier than Zoom was cool—as a result of its in its tenth 12 months—dialog with college students from every of the colleges, simply in order that the playwright can hear how college-age college students are excited about the subject they’re occupied with writing about. And utilizing these dramaturgical assets, the playwright is writing their play. They’re not writing for the particular college students that they’re speaking to, however they’re participating everybody in a dialog concerning the theme.
After that dialog, which takes place normally like February-August, which simply occurred, we had our three-day workshop of the primary draft of the script. We herald skilled actors in New York across the desk, the colleges, school, and representatives. Some college students will come. Everybody within the room is taking part within the improvement of the script over three days. After which the playwright from all that data in mining might rewrite the three days, however will rewrite from what they discovered throughout that workshop. Ship the draft to all the colleges, however to the primary college that’s doing the primary manufacturing. They’ll begin rehearsal, and the playwright goes to 2 days in-person to work with the scholars and the college in rehearsal course of, rewriting, answering questions, asking questions, no matter they want.
Then, myself and the playwright see the manufacturing. What we study from the manufacturing, the playwright rewrites once more. Go to the second college, the third college. It’s modeled after the Nationwide New Play Community’s rolling premiere apart from its rolling improvement. After which on the finish of the method, we are going to do a studying in New York that showcases the play and the challenge, and we’ll invite actors from every of the productions to come back and do their half within the studying subsequent to skilled actors. And that’s how this system works.
And considered one of my targets once we speak about collaboration is that we’re going to develop the script. It’s going to get three productions. They’re going to have the collaboration, nevertheless it’s actually about rising artists and recognizing how essential your voice is and strengthening the voice.
Elyzabeth: One of many issues that I like about this system is it truly is collaboration at its greatest as a result of you could have a chance to have a playwright within the room with a director and these college students who’re younger actors, so everybody has a chance to work collectively. So Jenn, you’re a director and a trainer, so how do you educate collaboration?
Jenn: Oh, effectively, it’s form of elementary to all the pieces that I attempt to educate. Even in historical past and literature lessons, I do collaborative exams as a result of I feel it’s essential that theatre college students simply come to duties with this collaborative mindset. And so a chance like this program the place we’re capable of see the script as collaborative in a means that college students don’t all the time get to see. Scripts are these stunning completed issues that we get in good bindings and so they’re unapproachable quite a lot of the time. And so we get an opportunity to form of use a challenge like this for college students to see a script as one thing that they’re straight impacting and that they may even contemplate themselves able to doing sometime as a result of it’s not some unapproachable monolith, it’s one thing that each one the artists are collaborating in and all of the artists are constructing collectively.
And I feel that that’s actually, actually an thrilling factor that I’ve by no means gotten to do with another instructing expertise. As a result of definitely we wish all of them to be within the room collectively and studying the best way to inform a narrative collectively. And this faculty collaboration challenge actually furthers that have of collaboration.
Elyzabeth: I additionally actually love that it provides college students a chance to study a really particular vocabulary by way of the best way to talk with a author, the best way to talk with a director in order that once they exit into the skilled world, they’ve these abilities as a result of that is the form of alternative that the majority college students don’t have till they depart faculty.
Padraic: I need to simply speak about that as a result of we simply did the three-day workshop, and on the second day we had thirty folks within the room. We had fifteen college students, together with school and the solid and the playwright. And it was nice to remind them, I stated, “We’d love to listen to what’s attention-grabbing to you and likewise what questions you could have,” as a result of I discovered younger artists wanting to unravel it, and I’m like, “You don’t have to search out the answer. To begin with, we’re on day considered one of a yearlong challenge, so your answer is… Even the playwright’s answer shouldn’t be going to be the answer a 12 months from now. So let’s not spend time there, simply what are your questions? What’s it upsetting in you? What are you enthusiastic about?”
And likewise to mannequin the thought of the actor committing to their job of appearing additionally helps to make clear for the playwright what’s working and never working. And so all people… Nevertheless it was attention-grabbing simply while you stated it, it sparked that second as a result of I used to be like, “Proper, we’re all coming to it and we’re completely satisfied to listen to concepts, however you don’t have to search out the answer. You simply take part within the dialog.”
Elyzabeth: So what are a few of the challenges that you just see college students battle with within the collaborative course of?
Jenn: I feel one of many large challenges I typically expertise with my college students is the will to be proper. They need to be sure they’re getting the best reply, and so they don’t need to take the dangers it takes to probably discover one thing that’s extra thrilling and extra participating. And that being open to a collaborative course of the place you possibly can’t essentially management the end result may be very, very scary while you need the best reply. I feel college students are… We joke so much about group tasks as a result of group tasks are infamously horrible, however theatre is a gaggle challenge it doesn’t matter what. And so I feel getting college students out of the form of concern of vulnerability that comes with placing the destiny of your challenge into the collective hand is a problem.
Elyzabeth: I like that you just stated that college students need to have the best reply. And I feel that quite a lot of college students actually battle with that. And naturally, as artists there isn’t a proper reply. It’s all so subjective. And so many college students actually battle to let go of that. Padraic, what do you see while you get within the room with college students?
Padraic: Nicely, that’s considered one of them is the best, but in addition that willingness to… The appropriate factor is completely it, but in addition willingness not solely to be improper, make errors, however to totally be capable of take a look at it from one other perspective. As a result of there’s quite a lot of instances the place you’ll hear early on while you’re speaking a few play and a personality, “Nicely, I wouldn’t try this.” And also you’re like, “Proper, proper, proper.” However let’s work out why this individual would try this. As a result of it might not make sense and it might have to be explored. Is that this the motion, and does it make sense within the story?
However quite a lot of instances it’s getting them to… You need them to deliver their life expertise to it, but in addition you need them to take a look at it from, what if it’s one other perspective? And once they can try this and open it up, it turns into very thrilling since you love them to deliver their very own perspective, however you additionally need them be… I would like them to problem the room, but in addition be challenged themselves and permit themselves that.
So I discover these what it’s, the being proper and likewise the “I wouldn’t.” And it’s additionally like don’t ever—I used to be about to place the destructive on—however attempt to be open to the constructive and no limitations as a result of there’s all the time the… We simply, like Jenn stated, we got here from the three-day workshop, and it’s so attention-grabbing once they’re speaking concerning the finish of the play and the affect it’s going to have on the viewers, and so they need to management that. And also you’re like, “Let it go and see what the character wants and see what the story is and let it movement and be open, open versus placing a cap and limitation on one thing.” I liked when Jenn stated one thing they will management.
And it’s thrilling by this challenge watching it over time that you just do watch the play develop, and also you watch the scholars acknowledge how a lot it grew and the way a lot it grew by their contribution. After which when it’s getting carried out, they’re like, “Oh my God, I didn’t know that was potential.” And I feel that’s thrilling, however these are the limitations at first.
Elyzabeth: Stepping away from the Farm Undertaking particularly, I needed to speak just a little bit about devising as a result of so many extra individuals are specializing in devising inside their theatre packages. How do you suppose devising has modified the best way we method collaboration?
Jenn: That’s such an attention-grabbing query. I’m an improviser. I’ve been an improviser for about twenty years, and that’s a type of issues that I feel individuals are fearful of storytelling that they don’t know the vacation spot once they get there. It may be actually terrifying for folks to stroll in and say, “We’re going to inform a narrative, and we don’t know any of the components.”
However I additionally generally discover that that finally ends up making the journey all that extra thrilling and private to the creators. It’s once more form of democratizing the method of playwriting that it doesn’t simply belong to this individual on this room with a typewriter who writes all day after which sends us this excellent completed factor. It makes writing belong to everybody, and it makes storytelling belong to everybody. And I feel it’s intimidating for positive as a result of we’re very used to being informed that we’re in our silos. “I’m an actor.” “I’m a designer.” “I’m a director.” “I’m a playwright.” And devising asks us all to be all of these issues and perceive all of these issues. And that’s the place I feel that theatre coaching has to be sure that college students perceive all of the items of theatre and might communicate all these languages as a result of you possibly can’t devise, you possibly can’t successfully collaborate, in case you don’t know the best way to communicate to all people else within the room.
Elyzabeth: These are all nice factors. One of many issues that has come up in a few of our earlier conversations has additionally been form of who’s in cost. It’s this collaborative course of, however who’s in cost in that scenario? We’re all collaborators, all of us have a stake on this, however is there somebody truly operating the ship? And completely different folks have had completely different ideas on what the reply to that’s. Do you guys have any ideas on that?
Padraic: I’ve ideas on it. I’ve ideas on it, and it’s very severe. I’ve a tough time. I feel that’s an essential query. Even once we’re devising, it’s a really… Once I take into consideration play improvement within the workshop we did, and the primary time you’re engaged on a playwright’s play, I feel it’s essential to have a director-dramaturg facilitating the dialog. So technically they’re main the room, however you’re serving the playwright and also you’re asking the playwright, you’re within the dialog with them: “What do you need to obtain? What do you need to hear? How do you need to go? Right here’s methods to go about it.” And ensuring that you just’re serving them.
And it was truly thrilling these previous three days. We did for the primary actual time that I bear in mind having actors improv a scene after which giving the context and data that we needed the 2 characters to have. And that was helpful, nevertheless it was essential to have someone facilitating the room in order that the playwright may… They’re serving a play, they’re listening to it.
And after I take into consideration devising, I like that Jenn stated it was the factor about all people understanding the roles and language and dialog. I feel it’s invaluable that there’s someone, someone, I don’t suppose it needs to be the “director,” however someone’s facilitating it as a result of I feel what’s actually… And someone else who’s taking note of document it. They’re not writing their script, however they’re recording the knowledge. As a result of one of many issues you’ll want to do in any, what I consider is essential in any collaboration is to create a protected surroundings so that folks can totally decide to what you’re asking them to do, like that improv, to allow them to make errors, to allow them to attempt one thing, and they also don’t have to look at themselves or take heed to themselves. So you could have someone outdoors creating that house for the folks to enter it. And there’s someone else on the skin saying, “Oh, that was actually after I heard this, or I noticed that.” After which we are able to speak about it afterwards, however create the surroundings the place you’re not self-conscious whilst you’re creating it.
Elyzabeth: So one other query I’ve is COVID actually modified the best way we made theatre as a result of we couldn’t be collectively in the identical means. Have you ever seen a change in the best way college students method collaboration for the reason that pandemic? Has it modified the best way they collaborate? Has it modified the best way they convey with each other, with the best way they work together with each other?
Jenn: The brief reply is unquestionably sure. I bear in mind the primary present that we did stay again from COVID, we had been nonetheless rehearsing masks, however we had been capable of carry out with out masks. And the primary day they took off masks, they couldn’t cease observing one another’s mouths as a result of they only weren’t used to seeing them.
And I do suppose that we speak so much concerning the energy of screens and the methods wherein folks draw back from one another once we’re all buried in our little screens, and we needed to stay in screens for 2 years. And I do suppose that that’s been a little bit of a problem for a few of our college students. However I additionally suppose that quite a lot of them have come again from it actually hungry to collaborate, to be in a room and to do one thing actual. So they might not essentially have had the entire time in highschool the place they received to do all the varsity performs and actually find out how that works after which maintain shifting ahead. So they may are available in with fewer laborious abilities on collaboration, however they need to do it. They actually need to, and so they know that they’ve missed out, and so they need to make it occur, which is thrilling.
Padraic: Yeah, they need to be within the… You’re proper, they need to be within the room. However I additionally need to say one of many issues that I’ve to get persistence for as a result of I’m previous is the factor that the pandemic did I assumed was nice is discovering completely different types of speaking. And so in a rehearsal… Earlier than COVID, once we had been across the desk, you’ll need all people to be current and possibly have a pocket book or one thing. And never simply expertise laptops are up, however folks taking notes on their telephone or sending a textual content. And realizing they’re not distracted due to Zooming for thus lengthy, they received used to placing one thing in chat or sending someone a textual content about one thing and also you notice if it’s a wholesome room, they’re sharing concepts alternative ways.
And I assumed, “Oh, that got here out of this, and I feel it’s helpful.” It’s helpful for me to remember that that’s taking place and that it’s not not productive, it’s a distinct means of sharing concepts. And a few individuals are higher at writing it in chat or that equal of no matter that’s than talking up possibly. And it’s actually I discovered methods for various conversations to occur in a room, which is thrilling, as a result of I’d prefer it all to be in a circle and take time and one individual at a time communicate, however extra data will get shared.
Elyzabeth: That’s a very good level. I hadn’t considered that. The work that you just do on the Farm may be very particular. It’s a really particular course of.
Jenn, what abilities did you see your college students take away from that have?
Jenn: Undoubtedly they actually develop of their means to research and speak critically about story and about character. I’ve directed two Farm reveals now, and the primary one was John Proctor Is the Villain. And we had been the primary college to do it. And once we first received the script, there have been a few pages that stated issues like, “one thing superior occurs.” And it was nice as a result of the scholars actually received to see their affect on the script because it went alongside. And there have been scenes that had been written after she met our actors, and there have been strains that had been delivered for the very first time by these twenty-year-old actors who now they take a look at that script and see themselves in these conversations and see how analyzing one thing isn’t simply an train in English class, it’s very actionable, and that they will see that their concepts play out in very actual creative methods. That was actually cool.
Elyzabeth: Padraic, what do you see college students take away from the collaborative course of?
Padraic: I see what Jenn stated is I make a remark that I feel it’s Miracle Develop for college students as a result of they acknowledge… I feel it’s, and I’m going to say Miracle Develop once more for them as a result of it’s. They see the affect that their artistry has. And while you speak about doing a play that’s printed and carried out and also you’re getting the instruments of… Once we’ve had college students do all the pieces, college students have directed, designed, stage managed, and acted. However you’re form of fixing an issue of this printed play, and also you’re studying the instruments of appearing. However then while you notice that artistry is about utilizing these instruments to your voice, so that you can specific one thing, so that you can… And while you deliver that and also you notice that what Jenn stated, and Kimberly I simply talked about her play, there’d be like six strains on a web page after which “one thing superior occurs right here” or the equal. And you then notice that the way you stated a line, what you delivered to it, your private artistry impacted that, and that play shall be modified eternally.
You watch their confidence simply develop as a result of they notice they matter and so they’re not simply studying the best way to act or making an attempt to be Romeo for the primary time, or if it’s been carried out for 5 hundred years, and do I get it proper? They’re like, “Oh, I’m respiratory life into one thing that’s by no means been given life to earlier than.” And so I do, I watch them at any time when I… We simply met across the desk in August, and after I see them, the identical children in June, sure, they’re a 12 months older, however they’re a lot extra assured within the course of on a regular basis. And I discover that to be the reality with all the children who do the collaboration.
Elyzabeth: So, we’ve talked so much concerning the actor-playwright-director-collaboration. How do you pull in your designers? How did they develop into a part of this course of?
Jenn: Yeah. Undoubtedly the designers are a serious a part of the collaboration. Definitely we normally have not less than one school designer, if no more, however then additionally pupil designers who’re part of it. And so there’s the form of instructing them the best way to plan forward the best way you’ll want to as a designer whereas additionally planning flexibility, as a result of it’s a brand new plan, we don’t know what’s going to occur.
And they’re undoubtedly going to be current when the playwright is on campus. They’re going to be invited to and current in rehearsals when they are often as a result of they should… I don’t like once we get again to these silos I talked about, this notion that someway the designers are separate from the method, that they’re constructing a world alongside all people else. We’re constructing it collectively, and they also have to have the ability to ask questions of the playwright.
We had the second play that I did as a part of The Farm with Dipti Bramhandkar, who is that this 12 months’s playwright. She had quite a lot of actually particular music in her script that our pupil sound designer couldn’t wrap her mind round. And so they spent a lot time collectively speaking about why this tune and what does it imply and take heed to the lyrics and take heed to the beat and, “Oh, what else may match alongside that?” And constructing this entire sonic world as a result of she was empowered to ask the playwright questions and to deliver her personal creativity to the method. So actually cool.
Padraic: Glad you talked about it as a result of that was the collaboration I used to be excited about as a result of the primary response. It was additionally studying how that collaboration occurred. As a result of at first it was like, “We wouldn’t take heed to that tune,” that limitation. After which when it turned asking questions of what’s it? What can it’s? Why is it? After which it provides you alternatives like, “Oh, okay, if it’s that, then what if it’s this?” And it was actually nice.
And such a easy… I used to be excited about that play for some cause as a result of additionally the costume designer, I feel, was a pupil and the folks needed to mature over a 12 months, nevertheless it wasn’t a few 12 months’s maturing. It’s referred to as mushy launch as a result of it was the primary 12 months out of school and form of discovering your traction. On the finish of the play, someone has actually taken a big step, and I assumed, “Wow, all of them appear like they’re 5, six years older on this easy factor.” And it’s like, “Oh, that individual understood the journey of the play, and so they had been actually engaged in what their job was for the tip.” And I assumed each of these pupil collaborations had been as a result of they had been a part of the entire and listening all through and being in dialog. Nevertheless it’s bringing them in as early as potential. I would love them to be across the desk once we’re doing the primary learn for the 12 months as a result of they all the time begin to consider how the story goes to be informed bodily.
Elyzabeth: So how do you suppose the collaborative course of will help us by this second of disaster that we’re in within the American theatre?
Padraic: There’s a few moments. There’s a second of disaster in an absence of viewers, and there’s absence of funding, after which there’s additionally essential social change that’s taking place in theatre. And I’m questioning while you say “disaster,” which one would you like me to consider? As a result of I don’t suppose the cultural change is a disaster. I feel that’s for the higher.
Elyzabeth: Undoubtedly. Let’s give it some thought by way of the disaster of our audiences and our funding as a result of I feel that’s the factor that’s threatening our livelihood.
What we’re doing for our artwork is coaching college students to be individuals who take into consideration the best way that the issues that they are saying work together with and affect the folks round them and the way they will hear what different folks want and worth and what issues to them.
Padraic: Speak about one of many targets for the faculty collab is once we picked the playwright and I say, “Decide a theme that you just’re occupied with writing about,” it’s one thing I feel undergraduates shall be occupied with having a dialog about. And once we get within the room for the three days, they’re having a dialog. Then while you’re in rehearsal and designers, after which we ask, and Centre Faculty is a good associate with this, to achieve out to, once we did John Proctor Is the Villain is concerning the #MeToo motion, counseling facilities; and so they begin to have a dialog, and it turns into wider. After which after all the viewers used the play, and the dialog will get wider.
And because it goes from group to group. Dialog retains rising and rising and together with extra folks. And I feel what we need to bear in mind is we inform the tales of theatre as a result of we’re sharing ourselves; and if we’re totally sharing ourselves with a function, we’re not solely asking the viewers to hear, however we’re additionally listening again. It’s a dialog. And so long as we maintain participating them within the dialog and for a function of what we expect is essential, and what I feel is essential is our humanity. Not that we’re going to the theatre to lecture, however we’re going to look at. We’re going to speak about my humanness on this, round this theme, round this difficulty, round what makes it laborious for me, what makes it thrilling for me, after which listening to again from them about what resonates with them.
And I feel if we are able to… That’s collaboration and it’s an inclusive dialog. And I feel once we try this, and I feel proper now once we speak about constructing our viewers again, I imply, I’m completely satisfied that Broadway is alive and effectively, however I feel one of many methods we’re going to need to maintain doing it’s constructing an intimate viewers and welcoming them in for private experiences. Once we talked concerning the pandemic and being on screens, folks needed that connection. In order I talked holistically concerning the dialog, it’s constructing it intimately, constructing it personally, actually listening to the viewers, figuring out that they’re valued, their expertise with what they noticed is essential.
After which while you’re going to funders, it’s sharing that, being like, “Right here’s why it’s essential. Right here’s the dialog I had, and right here’s the affect I heard.” And donors reply to that. They need a stronger group, and so they need worth. And what’s the worth is folks felt valued and so they felt heard, and so they felt seen. And so I feel that’s the spirit of holding the collaboration persevering with from manufacturing to the viewers, that that’s nonetheless collaborative.
Jenn: Yeah, I fully agree with Padraic’s dialogue of the viewers as a part of the collaboration. We historically have handled the viewers as if they’re receivers of one thing, nevertheless it’s not even a efficiency till they’re there. And so actually there’s the form of what we’re doing for our artwork is coaching college students to be individuals who take into consideration the best way that the issues that they are saying work together with and affect the folks round them and the way they will hear what different folks want and worth and what issues to them. And I feel that goes past their affect on the theatrical disaster as effectively, that the form of international lack of ability to attach with one another. Collaboration is on the coronary heart of any options to that, that now we have to discover ways to talk and hear and be weak and share, and that it’s a worldview. It’s a means of constructing which means. It’s not only a means of constructing artwork. And in order that’s why I feel that collaboration is critical.
Padraic: What Jenn stated made me remind me of while you stated we’re making folks. It’s like, “Proper.” And I feel what’s invaluable concerning the technique of collaboration within the room is in case you study to hear and also you study to grasp different views, you study the worth you deliver. Whether or not these college students or any of the artists within the room proceed to make theatre or not, doesn’t matter. What issues is that they perceive that they convey worth into the world and that the opposite folks within the room deliver worth to the world, after which they proceed to construct off of that into no matter route they go of their life.
Elyzabeth: And I feel as educators, that’s finally what we wish for our college students, that they will exit into the world and that they are often good collaborators, whether or not that’s as a theatre artist or in another subject that they resolve to enter. Proper?
Padraic: Yeah.
Elyzabeth: That these abilities translate into so many different issues.
Thanks, you guys, for being right here in the present day. It was pretty to speak to each of you.
Padraic: So nice to speak to you.
Jenn: Yeah, this was enjoyable.
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