Elyzabeth Gregory Wilder: Welcome to Instructing Theatre, a podcast concerning the follow and pedagogy of theatre schooling produced for HowlRound Theatre Commons, a free and open platform for theatremakers worldwide. I am your host, playwright and theatre Professor Elyzabeth Gregory Wilder.
Welcome again to the Instructing Theatre podcast at HowlRound. In the present day we’re actually excited to be speaking about work ethic and work-life stability. To hitch us in the present day, we now have Marcus Lane, who’s an affiliate professor of theatre and head of actor coaching on the College of Montevallo in Alabama. He teaches motion, stage, fight, performing, and directing.
Marcus, thanks for becoming a member of us in the present day.
Marcus Lane: Thanks for having me. I actually recognize it.
Elyzabeth: And in the present day we now have Jennifer Blackmer. Jennifer Blackmer’s performs have been seen in productions throughout the nation, together with Human Terrain, the stage adaptation of Margaret Atwood’s Alias Grace, and Predictor, which concluded a nationwide rolling world premiere this spring. She’s a professor within the Division of Theatre and Dance at Ball State College the place she’s taught for twenty years. Jennifer, thanks a lot for being right here.
Jennifer Blackme: I am comfortable to be right here, Elyzabeth. Thanks for the invitation.
Elyzabeth: So on this episode, we’ll be speaking about work ethic and work-life stability, however with a purpose to actually discuss these points, we additionally I feel have to begin by speaking a bit bit about psychological well being. So I would like to verify in with you guys. What sort of psychological well being challenges are you seeing your college students dealing with lately, particularly popping out of the pandemic?
Jennifer: Okay, so one of many issues I’ve seen within the varied sizes of lessons I’ve taught—I’ve taught giant lessons for our first-year college students along with our smaller lessons with the playwriting studios and people forms of issues—our college students are scuffling with anxiousness. They are surely. And I do know that school is an anxious time to start with, and it at all times has been. And over the course of my profession, I’ve endorsed college students and labored with them on methods to stability their anxiousness and their must do nicely in a enterprise that’s actually aggressive and really tough to navigate and requires a ton of proactivity, if you’ll. The scholars really want to step up and do the work and encourage themselves to do it.
It is tough to stability that, I feel, now on this period the place there’s a lot different stuff that they’ve to consider along with attempting to determine what sort of an artist they’re and attempting to determine what they wish to say with their work, whether or not it is performing or writing, along with these struggles which have at all times been with us proper from time immemorial, now we now have this exterior sense of, I do not wish to say doom, as a result of that is actually… I imply that is actually pessimistic, however in a method I see my very own children scuffling with it as nicely.
I am the mom of three youngsters, and now that they’re of faculty age, it is all type of coming collectively, and my parenting instincts kick into play with my college students as nicely. So there’s simply this normal sense of hysteria, nearly just like the amplifier is turned as much as eleven, and there is this sort of hum within the background of every little thing that they are attempting to attain as school college students, proper? They’re studying who they’re; they’re studying what they wish to say and how much artists they wish to be. And as well as, it is nearly as if these exterior pressures that they are listening to within the media and on social media and from their friends and different academics are all sort of converging into this anxiousness stew, I assume, and that’s completely different for the reason that pandemic, I feel.
Elyzabeth: Marcus, what are you seeing along with your college students?
Marcus: Properly, I feel one of the vital attention-grabbing issues to me is I feel I would name it nearly like a checkbox mentality, that it is this actually this concept that there is just one reply, and I must have the precise reply, and that is the one reply that exists, and so I am simply going to get this one factor, after which that is performed—I do not ever have to fret about it once more. And I feel that presents some issues when within the instructing surroundings we’re going, “Properly, that is a reply or an reply. There’s really a number of methods to get to the place you wish to go, and that is the inventive course of. It is not the identical method for everyone.” After which we get this amorphous thought actually popping out of the pandemic right here. When everybody made that shift to on-line, it was “how briskly can I do it? How little can I put in?”
You get big quantities of grace, however there’s solely this one reply, and when you received it fallacious, you retain answering the query over and over, so that you get it proper. You then go to the following one. And that in our artwork and craft, that actual thought of there’s not only one solution to do it and that the artistry actually is within the the way you do it’s sort of problematic for a few of them and causes stress as a result of a few of these formal years in highschool, it was you simply wanted to have a solution, you simply must have the precise reply. That is all it must be. I see this from a few of them, too, is “I do it as soon as and I am performed. I need not follow do it once more. Why are you asking me to do it once more? In case you’re asking me to do it once more, then I am poor, then I’m not good, then I am not this stuff”— and attempting to persuade a scholar that, no, what we’re speaking about is you are at a great degree, however we wish to make you to an amazing or wonderful degree, and that’s our purpose of participating a course of, and that it’s a course of. And simply doing it as soon as and being good just isn’t sufficient to essentially get to method, to essentially get to repeatability and sustainability.
And I feel that is one of many greatest issues we have sort of had. I get that rather a lot in my starting performing lessons and even in my introduction lessons with college students who aren’t within the main itself. This concept of “I simply wish to give you the precise reply after which neglect about it.”
Jennifer: Yeah, nuance is admittedly tough proper now. Nuance is tough and, I imply, that is the place we dwell—proper?—as artists and storytellers is we dwell in that house of uncertainty and complexity and having to remove a number of sides of an argument or of a narrative and nuance is admittedly tough proper now. And once more, I feel coming from this house of our college students are anxious as a result of they’ve been instructed proper and fallacious for a really very long time, and so that is what they’re in search of. And in artwork making as a course of, Marcus, which you had been speaking about, it’s important to have interaction in a course of which means it’s important to ask questions, and extra vital, I feel, it’s important to be comfy in discomfort.
Marcus: Sure.
Jennifer: You need to be comfy in that house of not figuring out. And sadly, and admittedly, I do not suppose that that is solely instructing theatre. I feel that is true throughout larger ed on the whole—
Marcus: I might agree.
Jennifer: Is that larger ed is beneath assault proper now, and we see it all over the place. Particularly, the humanities are beneath assault, and the humanities are beneath assault as majors which are meaningless or pointless, and it’s extremely tough, I feel, to be a scholar in these fields lately and listen to that after which have any individual like me or any individual such as you Marcus, you Elyzabeth telling our college students that they have to be okay not figuring out. So it is nearly like they’re being hit by each side. The world is saying it’s important to know what you are going to be if you graduate, and it’s important to have a clearly outlined profession, and it’s important to have a path that may make you cash and purchase you medical health insurance. In the meantime, what they’re enthusiastic about, which is artwork making just isn’t that, and it is by no means been that and it may’t be that, proper? So I assume my massive query, how do you train an adolescent in the present day the best way to be okay with discomfort?
Elyzabeth: I am seeing increasingly more overlap in plenty of these conversations with college students who actually wrestle with discomfort and do not wish to be uncomfortable.
Jennifer: Yeah. And there isn’t any reply as nicely. I imply, particularly in playwriting, Elyzabeth, as you recognize, there’s your play. And I get scenes and performs from my college students they usually’re like, “Is it good?” And I am like, “I am having fun with it very a lot, however is that this the play that you really want?” I imply, that is the factor, proper? Is there’s this sense of this actual want for exterior validation in each method and that I feel, once more, going again to my preliminary remark about anxiousness, I feel that then feeds into their sense of being anxious as a result of they only wish to do it the precise method.
Marcus, what you stated about checkboxes actually resonated with me as nicely as a result of that can also be, I feel as a instructor these days what we’re given, I imply, we’re given checkboxes, we’re given studying outcomes we’re given… You need to fulfill this explicit knowledge level, after which primarily based on these information, then selections might be made shifting ahead. Whereas I went into schooling wanting these particular person connections with college students and desirous to make a distinction within the classroom and get into the weeds with them concerning the issues that I like about this artwork kind, that are linked to nuance, complexity, all the issues that we have introduced up as points now; these are the issues I like concerning the artwork. So it is actually arduous, I feel, to navigate that these days as each a instructor and a scholar.
Marcus: I feel one of many tough issues, going again to the concept of discomfort, significantly I discover it attention-grabbing within the motion class specifically once we’re participating our our bodies otherwise and that there is a disconnect between being uncomfortable bodily and being in ache and never having the ability to acknowledge the distinction between the 2. It’s uncomfortable since you’ve not engaged your physique in that method earlier than. It is not that you simply’re really in bodily ache, however not having the ability to inform the distinction between the 2 actually harkens again to sort of what we’re speaking about. I do not prefer to be uncomfortable.
I joke with my college students on a regular basis. I’m a creature of consolation, so I am carrying garments that I really feel comfy in, however the artwork does require us to dwell on the perimeters with a purpose to develop and get higher, and being prepared to step out of that consolation zone may be fairly completely different or tough, and I make them cringe. I am going to this concept of math. All proper, so most of you perceive primary math. If I stated, “Two plus two equals what?” A big portion of them are going to go, “4.” And I’ll go, “Is that the one solution to get to the quantity 4 if we’re participating in math?” And naturally, everyone knows it isn’t.
There’s tens of millions of the way: we are able to preserve it easy or we are able to make it tremendous complicated. And getting them to know that we nonetheless get the identical consequence, we nonetheless get to 4, however the journey wherein we’re participating needs to be your journey and that is the artistry to it. The way you select to get there? Are you going to make use of features or likelihood, fractions, algorithms? Are you going to do all that or are you going to remain easy?
And the way you select to do it says about you what kind of artist you wish to be. And perhaps you begin easy after which get extra complicated, after which perhaps you come back again to being extra easy. However that at all times, you are getting again to that concept that you really want. It is 4, and the answer is 4. That is our efficiency, our manufacturing, our consequence, our play. We’re nonetheless attending to that desired consequence, however actually getting them to be freer within the understanding of the journey to get there, there’s not simply the a technique and that they need to be sort of prepared to decide on the best way to get there. And it isn’t an project or a step, or it is that as they get extra expertise and encourage, and perhaps the primary eighteen billion instances we attempt it, we do not get to 4, however ultimately we are going to as a result of we all know that is the place we’re headed to. We all know it is the play itself or the manufacturing or the result that we’re in search of, however there’s received to be freedom to fail and there is received to be freedom.
And I am going again to that evaluation you are speaking about. Oh my gosh, I agree with you a lot that actually with my college students at the moment I am going, “Once you end an performing class, it is probably not ‘are you a great actor or a nasty actor by the point you are performed?’ It is, ‘did you full the part components which are requisite? Did you present up on time? Did you decide a monologue? Was it memorized? Did you current it however we’re not attending to the standard of it or did your use of method, was there higher selections contained in the method we’re simply going, did you have interaction it?’” And that is actually the place we’re at evaluation. After which actually sort of encouraging the scholars to resolve, do you wish to be an artist or do you not? You may have a talent, however simply having a talent doesn’t suggest you are good and actually convincing them on that finish. And it is actually arduous with our present evaluation mannequin as a result of we will not get to that a part of it.
And I feel it is tough to persuade college students who’ve spent a very long time checking the field or solely having one reply or being taught to a take a look at to go—
Jennifer: Or getting the A. You may’t advance until you get an A.
Marcus: You are so on it. I feel again to earlier this semester, I had somebody who goes, “You gave me a ninety-four as an alternative of 100. Why?” And wished me to justify. And I take a look at them, I am going, “You had an A. What’s the precise situation right here? Let us take a look at the evaluation software. Which half had been you not good in?”
Elyzabeth: I knew that we needed to have this dialog as a result of I am listening to so many theatre educators discuss work ethic and the challenges of discovering a work-life stability. We’re seeing the business having these conversations as extra theatres are attempting to rethink rehearsal schedules and the lengthy hours that we work. I feel we’re tasked with not simply coaching our college students and their craft, however we even have to show them the best way to present up and the best way to do the work. And that appears to be an enormous problem proper now, particularly post-COVID.
What sort of challenges have you ever seen in your division with regard, I assume, particularly to dedication and scholar buy-in and simply displaying up?
Jennifer: That is a superb query as a result of we’re having these discussions proper now as a school and attempting to determine the best way to amend and evolve, and I take advantage of that time period very particularly, evolve our insurance policies for issues like participation and displaying up and attendance and all the points of doing this work that we sort of assumed had been simply no-brainers. After all you are going to go to class; after all you are going to…
And once more, I feel we do blame the pandemic for lots and rightly so. I imply it’s such a large disruption in the best way human beings join, utilizing that time period within the current tense. And I feel that there is so many ramifications of that which are simply now changing into identified. And so now we’re in that very same place, I feel, of attempting to find out this stability between rigor and style that we now have been coping with I feel for some time. After which the pandemic exploded the entire thing. What does it imply to truly do the work?
To me, it is a pendulum swing. I feel that the pandemic not solely inspired the swinging in the wrong way, I feel it shoved it in the wrong way as a result of there was a lot downtime and empty time and time of being on this very anxious place the place you do not know what the following day goes to deliver, not to mention the following week or the following month, and attempting to navigate that as a scholar who’s anticipated to do issues is hard.
After which add to that the calls for that this enterprise have positioned on us actually since day one… I imply, I feel again to my time as an intern. After I graduated undergrad, I used to be an intern at Indiana Repertory Theatre. And I beloved it. It was so wonderful. I discovered a lot, however I labored a median of ninety hours every week, ninety-seven hours, I imply silly stuff. I slept within the theatre typically. So I personally am on this bizarre house of reckoning with myself, I feel, attempting to determine for my college students what’s a sound work ethic as a result of all of us, I feel, our work ethics going into this complete factor, we’re fairly screwed. I imply, we do not wish to be dishonest to our college students concerning the world that they are coming into and concerning the enterprise that they are coming into, which is tremendous aggressive and can stay so.
I like, love that my college students wish to change the world. I actually, actually do. I like that they wish to graduate and go on the market and never solely change issues philosophically for just about every little thing, but additionally logistically, proper? They wish to work for firms that do not do ten out of twelve. They wish to begin their very own theatres and be capable to pay everyone not solely simply residing wages, however unimaginable wages; and I would like them to try this. I so need them to try this. I do not know the best way to train them how to try this.
Marcus: Properly, I feel what you are saying is one hundred pc, plenty of what I am seeing. We’ve a disconnect typically right here between that concept and motion and that or an actual understanding of the enterprise aspect. So sure, do I want that each one my college students may exit and have an organization and make no matter greater than the residing wage is or… After all, after all, I do.
Jennifer: Sure, go do it.
Marcus: There’s this actual disconnect to the concept of how a lot stuff prices or what is really a residing wage. I had a scholar who. they had been doing a struggle contract, and it was actually for them within the room, it was ten hours’ value of labor, they usually paid him a set quantity, and I stated, “How a lot did they pay you?” And he is like, “It was $500.” I used to be like, “Okay, so what’s your criticism right here?” And he is like, “Properly, I want a residing wage.” And I went, “Properly, the job was three days of rehearsal, what number of hours?” And he’s like, “Properly, it was like ten hours whole.” I am like, “Okay, nicely how a lot prep time did it’s important to put in? So how a lot did you make an hour?” And he is doing it out. I am like, “That is greater than I make as a professor.” I imply, you are not getting medical health insurance, you recognize—
Jennifer: Don’t get me began on that one.
Marcus: But it surely’s sort of placing some issues in context. And I used to be like, “In case you had been working a forty-hour week, how a lot is {that a} 12 months?” And sort of considering in that, and it is like, I do not need you to not make that cash. However then there’s an actual disconnect between, nicely, you’ve got been out of faculty for 2 years; this is the amount of cash you are making. Here is somebody who’s been working for twenty, twenty-five, thirty years who has much more expertise with you; what sort of cash ought to they be making? Is that this a viable, workable mannequin? And understanding it is enterprise. I feel there’s nonetheless a disconnect between that concept of sure, I feel all of us need that.
We have made the change right here. You introduced up technical rehearsals. I began it final 12 months and we simply completed the tech course of once more this 12 months that we’re not doing twelve out of twelves. We have made a change…
Jennifer: Yeah, we’re not doing that both.
Marcus: We have expanded tech, so there’s extra days of tech, however we have capped them within the weekdays. It is like three days at three hours after which two days on the weekend the place it is six hours and we do a straight six if it was an fairness contract. So it is really 5 hours of labor and an hour break sort of in there and attempting to determine can we nonetheless get all of the work that we do, however we’re nonetheless ensuring that everybody will get sleep, everybody sitting within the water, we’re checking in on folks. No one’s to the place the place they’re tremendous fried. And that is not simply our college students. That is actually us, too, as a result of I do suppose that we return to—
Jennifer: Completely. Sure.
How can we now assist you determine the best way to work that lets you achieve success?
Marcus: One of many pandemic points is I keep in mind that for me, one of many greatest struggles was now I am not simply instructing in a single or two completely different ranges on the similar time; I am now additionally doing that for 3 completely different modalities—in an internet, a hybrid, and an in-person—and attempting to have interaction learners who be taught a number of alternative ways and never simply sticking to 1 method of instructing and the stress that that actually sort of places into the method, too, that actually taking a look at an teacher’s psychological well being in that course of as nicely, that I feel that a few of our college students nonetheless miss within the course of too. They’re very keenly aware of their expertise throughout this however should not very cognizant or conscious that they weren’t the one ones who skilled this and that this was a worldwide situation and that everyone skilled this and that we’re all negotiating. How can we come again, and the way can we have interaction?
And I do suppose that there is an consciousness. I do know that most individuals I’ve encountered—the 2 of you actually are included on this, getting to speak to you—is that there is an consciousness and a want to have interaction, however not a transparent path to treatment. And I feel that that is a part of the exploration for us, that going again to the tech schedule right here, for me, I am attempting one thing completely different. One in all my different friends goes to have interaction this mannequin the following time, however I do have one other peer who’s like, “No, that is not what I wish to do.” So they’ll get expertise with each, which goes to be actually, I feel, good in some methods. So it isn’t this massive shock once they get out as a result of I am taking a look at plenty of main regional theatres. A few of them are attempting to alter, however a few of them aren’t.
Jennifer: Yeah, yeah.
Marcus: And the way can we negotiate that, and the way can we operate? And I am going again to psychological well being: one of many issues I’m, as teacher, I am actually consciously attempting to have interaction is it isn’t denying that you simply perhaps have a studying incapacity or anxiousness or another psychological well being situation that perhaps prevents you participating the identical method perhaps a few of your friends do. It is going, okay, you might have this. How can we have interaction it? How can we now assist you determine the best way to work that lets you achieve success? It is not denying it, it isn’t something like that. But it surely’s additionally understanding that on this business, when you select to do it, the play opens on this date, proper? That is not shifting. That is the day we’re open. So the work must be performed by this timeframe. How can we assist you to discover a solution to work wherein you might be profitable giving this stuff that it is advisable to negotiate for your self? Or whether or not that is psychological well being, bodily well being, bodily limitation, something like that, how do you now have interaction that?
And that a part of your school expertise needs to be participating that concept, however inherently which means you are going to wrestle. You are going to fail until you are that fortunate one that the primary stab you get it proper. I am not that individual.
Jennifer: Proper. Properly, and that is at all times us. Yeah, that is at all times a misnomer too. Even when you get it proper the primary time, chances are high that is luck. That is not—
Marcus: Is it repeatable? Is it sustainable?
Jennifer: Sure, precisely. And I feel that that is so many nice factors and what you simply stated, Marcus, it is an perspective shift. So, it isn’t like we are able to repair every little thing for them. I feel the query is doing precisely what you had been saying, Marcus, about how can we have interaction the issues that they’ve, the problems that they’ve, and encourage them to confront them, work with them, not attempt to change them essentially, however acknowledge that the work is what it’s? We are able to change it perhaps a bit bit, however on the finish of the day, what you are speaking about doing is not essentially making theatre. So we’re taking a look at attempting to encourage the scholars to aspire to do the factor that we love and that we wish them to like and interact with as nicely, and to work via the obstacles that they’ve and to help them as a lot as we are able to in navigating these obstacles, however then additionally understanding that that is part of your particular person course of, that that is what that is going to be.
And the opposite factor I am going to say about that is that, once more, going again to how a lot I like my college students and the way a lot I do need them to alter the world, the purpose I wish to make about that is that theatre artists, whether or not we have been doing this perpetually or whether or not we’re first beginning out, in my opinion, we’re all on this collectively. We’re all on this collectively. There was a phenomenal factor really on HowlRound that introduced up Zelda Fichandler and a few of that and simply this sense of we’re all artists and have been doing this for thus lengthy, and we love this a lot; and actually the battle we now have just isn’t with one another, nevertheless it’s with exterior perceptions of this business that, in truth, we must be prepared, as a result of it is a ardour mission, and we must be prepared to work eighty-seven hours every week on this.
And admittedly, I do. I imply, when you depend the time that I spend desirous about the work I am doing and attempting to resolve in my mind and that type of background power that all of us have attempting to resolve these issues, perhaps I am not actively desirous about them, however they’re at all times there, proper? In case you attempt to put a greenback quantity on that, it’s my life. Sure, I’m consumed by what I do as a result of I find it irresistible a lot, however that does not imply it is value much less, proper?
Elyzabeth: You guys have each type of touched on shifting the best way you rehearse and taking away rethinking the ten out of twelve. What different methods have you ever or your departments put in place to assist tackle a few of these points by way of getting college students to point out up or balancing that work-life stability or their psychological well being? Are there another modifications that you’ve made inside your departments to assist make it a more healthy surroundings?
Marcus: I feel there’s two issues: one inside the division after which one I am sort of doing by myself that is spreading a bit bit. I feel the primary one is we’re actually attempting to determine this concept of clear expectation and establishing the concept of if you full a activity otherwise you end what you are engaged on, the following issues that occur is you come to the individual and go, what’s subsequent? And so that you’re continually going, “Properly, what’s subsequent? What’s subsequent? What’s subsequent?” that even when you’ve accomplished this, there’s at all times one thing else. And that is the expectation and being clear in that.
I feel that a few of my college students, after I first get them, they like to have interaction within the what I am going to name the wiggle room on that. It is like, nicely, you did not clearly talk otherwise you did not say what the factor is. They usually’re like, “It is in your syllabus, man. Cannot get any clearer than this. It is easy sentence construction.”
However I feel that being tremendous clear as a course of over time, so taking a look at what we’re taking a look at is admittedly our first engagement perhaps in a freshman 12 months. How can we have interaction that sophomore 12 months, how can we have interaction that junior 12 months, a continued development of this concept of what is subsequent. Coupled with that, one of many issues I am attempting to do proper from the get-go with my college students is admittedly encouraging them to be egocentric of their schooling and collaborative of their artwork.
So egocentric within the schooling is admittedly why you are within the room, working in that class, just isn’t permitting different folks within the classroom to drag away or take awa.y letting their anxiousness, letting their points or they’re letting… they’re extra anxious about what is going on to occur after class or that evening or this weekend, infect you in that method and permitting that for the fifteen minutes or an hour and fifteen minutes that you simply’re within the studio classroom with me, that you’re actually participating for that period of time after which participating these different issues outdoors of the room and that once we get to the rehearsal house, you might be then shifting from being egocentric to being collaborative.
And that understanding the distinction between the 2 and people areas, and it is one thing I’ve actually tried to have interaction. I incorporate into the rehearsal course of. I discuss it on a regular basis, and it is actually about goal-making and that actually understanding within the classroom house, the second you step in, it’s important to have a purpose for that day, and that the purpose for that day would not need to be big. It is actually when you squeeze each your fingers collectively, like your thumb and your index finger, irrespective of how tight you squeeze, there’s nonetheless house. And that over time, when you did that a lot enchancment every single day over a calendar 12 months, you might have measurable enchancment, and that they speak to me. Generally I get repetitive, and I am like, “I am repetitive as a result of I want you to imagine me, and you do not imagine me but. You’ll ultimately since you hear it on a regular basis and that you simply’re seeing it not simply and listening to it, however you are getting it in follow, you are getting it within the classroom, you are getting it within the rehearsal room, you are getting it in interactions within the foyer the place we’re speaking about this thrilling factor we simply noticed,” and that, actually, that two-fold factor I imagine will work.
I simply suppose it takes time of adjusting that tradition. We’re nonetheless so early in determining that tradition that it isn’t completely in there but, however I see a distinction between perhaps our juniors and seniors who’re actually on the coronary heart of COVID lessons versus perhaps our incoming freshmen who’re far more like, “Oh, okay, yeah, I am not going to let… I would like this, and if I wish to do that, then I must…”
We’re seeing a few of that distinction, in order that tradition is beginning to change, however it’s… I want it was like how they see it: one and performed. I completed the factor, so now I am performed. And this concept of repetitive nature to it, as everyone knows, is course of, and that over time course of wins out. It will get us to the place we wish to go.
Jennifer: Marcus, similar to what you stated, I do really feel prefer it’s enhancing a bit, little bit by way of, I feel the scholars that we’re getting now who, sure, they misplaced plenty of stuff throughout the pandemic, however they did not lose as a lot of the quintessential stuff that I feel these preliminary few lessons misplaced. Highschool graduations, these moments of transition, and people actually human rituals that you simply type of must mark that second if you stop changing into a child and begin changing into an grownup. I imply, that is to not say that it is a checkbox, and now I am an grownup in the present day, however have you learnt what I am saying? I imply, I feel there was simply plenty of that that was taken away, and that was actually acute for me and my household as a result of my oldest was a member of the category of 2020, and so along with sort of navigating his struggles via all of this, I used to be in a position to get a wider view, I feel, of what a few of our college students had been coping with as nicely.
So, concerning what we now have been doing to deal with a few of this, I feel sure, completely Marcus what you had been speaking about and looking out on the notion of course of and utilizing that as an anchor to essentially encourage the scholars to stretch and be okay with these locations of discomfort. We’ve tried to be extra intentional about not solely the variety of tasks that we do, however the time that these tasks take. And somewhat than shifting everyone in and in and out and in and out out, growth, growth, growth, growth, growth, we’re attempting to supply a bit bit more room inside these tasks that we do.
And moreover, we even took away a present, and since this can be a podcast you’ll be able to’t see, however I am utilizing air quotes: we “took away” a present, a manufacturing, and we supplied that house for brand spanking new works occasions. And so these are much less taxing, after all, on our manufacturing areas, however in addition they provide alternatives for college students who write performs and devise and create work that haven’t been there earlier than. So in essence, by “taking away” a extra conventional manufacturing course of and utilizing that house that was created to serve a unique neighborhood of scholars, that has been sort of a win-win in plenty of methods.
Now, we’re nonetheless sort of within the technique of attempting to outline what which means, however I feel the intention is admittedly good. And the opposite factor I am going to say is extra of an perspective that we’re attempting to foster extra so than we now have previously. It is at all times been the intention of our program to essentially train the entire individual. And a part of that requires an understanding that there is a stress at all times between competitors and collaboration, particularly in an enormous program the place there’s X variety of alternatives. You get all of the performing college students they usually’re, and it is like, “Who’s going to get what position?” And blah, blah, blah.
And there is this sense, and I feel going again to that checkbox mentality, Marcus, you talked about earlier, there’s this sense that what we do, significantly within the performing and musical theatre worlds, it is a zero-sum sport, that if any individual will get one thing, then I did not get it, proper? And it is a sacrifice for me to ensure that this individual. And so we’re actually attempting to emphasise the collaborative side of this enterprise and the way we’re all on this collectively, and we’re all making artwork, and we’re all attempting to navigate our personal aggressive natures on the subject of this. And so what do you do, how do you deal with it when you aren’t getting what you need?
As a result of the actual fact of the matter is that is 95 p.c of your time on this business is you aren’t getting what you need. You get the rejection. You get the “no”. You hear no on a regular basis. And so actually being aware with our college students about what it means to navigate these worlds, in addition to the opposite stuff, that that is a talent that you’ll take with you into the business, and what higher time to begin studying that than now? However there is a solution to do it that is swish. There is a solution to do it that’s uplifting. There is a method to try this that may grow to be part of your story.
So I feel these are two issues we’re doing right here. Logistically, we’re experimenting in lessons with no screens, which in an performing class, after all, it is sort of a no brainer. You don’t have any screens. However we’re additionally experimenting in our script evaluation lessons, in our historical past lessons and the playwriting lessons. What does it imply? Yeah, let’s print stuff out once more. So once we deliver it into class and we’re really trying on the phrases on the web page, we’re not distracted by so many different issues.
And that may be a wrestle typically for these of us who’re academics as nicely, as a result of we wish to be accessible, we wish to comply with the foundations, we wish to save paper and blah, blah, blah. However on the similar time, we’re attempting to fulfill our college students the place they’re, which is distracted one hundred pc of the time, however we’re additionally attempting to encourage them to do different issues and various things.
I attempt to domesticate a way of this on a regular basis, however what that additionally means is which you can be damage, you may be rejected. Vulnerability may be actually robust. But it surely’s additionally the best way I feel to dwell a very massive life.
Elyzabeth: Properly, I wish to thanks each for providing up your time and your experiences in the present day. This has been an amazing dialog.
As we wrap up, there are such a lot of challenges and transitions that we’re coping with, and I feel looking for wholesome options for… what would you want your college students to remove from their time in your program, and the way do you hope that their coaching will serve them each on and off stage?
Jennifer: I speak concerning the… Generally I say it is a love affair with this enterprise, that you’ve a love affair with this enterprise, that typically it is nice. And I prefer to say that the overwhelming majority of time, it is nice, however then there are additionally instances if you’re arguing along with your vital different, which on this case occurs to me doing theatre, proper? And never solely is doing theatre course of, I feel that the lifetime of an artist can also be a course of. You are navigating your time on this world, and you’ve got chosen to do it as an artist, and there isn’t any better present. And it is also very, very difficult too. And I encourage them at each step of the best way to withstand the checkbox, to withstand the it’s fill-in-the-blank or “I’m fill-in-the-blank at all times and perpetually.” And if you set up it, then that is what it’s.
And that’s… that is not life. A sense of security, uncertainty. And you’ll really feel protected in locations the place you recognize what’s what or the place you suppose what’s what, however having been on this earth longer than my college students, and I do not wish to be the outdated fart saying “get off my garden,” however on the similar time, the fun of my life, absolutely the ardour that I’ve for being a storyteller and all the wonderful issues which have occurred to me are due to, I attempt to domesticate a way of this on a regular basis, however what that additionally means is which you can be damage, you may be rejected. Vulnerability may be actually robust. But it surely’s additionally the best way I feel to dwell a very massive life.
And so yeah, I’ll do every little thing I can that can assist you with the problems that you’re dealing with by way of psychological well being challenges and anxiousness, and all of those new methods we now have of speaking about are struggles, and people are so helpful, they usually’re so actual that I additionally don’t desire these struggles to stop you from participating totally within the beautiful lifetime of being an artist.
Marcus: I feel one of many issues for me, I come again to, I speak to plenty of my college students about this concept that maybe by the point they’re ten years out from commencement, there’s not as many individuals nonetheless engaged within the artwork or craft as there have been at commencement day, however there’s nothing fallacious with that. And that is a part of the journey. And actually what I would like them to remove from right here is this concept of residing a life on function, and that it is this concept that as an artist we do, we now have function, there are issues we are attempting to perform and do and communicate to and interact. And that you are able to do that as a instructor, as a banker, as an accountant, as “insert different job right here.” And that the talents that you simply’re getting right here once we’re taking a look at communication, empathy, the flexibility to operate in an surroundings that is not a solo surroundings and dealing with others, you might have all of these expertise.
And in plenty of instances, if you stroll into an interview house or something like that, you are in a position to run laps round so many individuals who perhaps have a unique diploma observe or began out their journey a bit bit completely different than you. However the hot button is actually, are you residing that massive life, as was stated? Are you residing as afterthought or because the forethought? Are you shifting in the direction of one thing or letting issues occur to you? And one of many issues I actually need them to only operate, it’s okay to fail. It is okay to select your self up and reinvent your self and do the various things, however with a purpose to have the prospect to dwell that extraordinary life, it’s important to attempt, it’s important to do, it’s important to dwell a lifetime of function. You bought to maneuver ahead. You may’t wait. And I actually need them to take that, even when it isn’t finally in theatre or in movie, or in our artwork and craft, however I simply imagine the talents that they get are so marketable throughout so many various issues.
There’s not a single, I am considering again via—I have been at this college for fifteen years. I used to be at CUNY Kingsborough for nearly 5. I used to be on the College of Alabama for 3 years—that I can not suppose again to a single scholar that did not have interaction and interact function and attempt to do it, who would not have success indirectly, form, or kind. I do not see failure there. Perhaps it took an extended journey time to get to the place they wished to go, however they’re all profitable, and it is simply convincing them or getting them to imagine or purchase in that they will.
Elyzabeth: Properly, I wish to thanks each a lot for sharing your time with us. I feel this can be a actually vital dialog. It is one which I really feel like retains developing time and time once more, so hopefully others can discover some inspiration in what you guys have shared with us about your experiences in your packages.
Jennifer: Thanks, Elyzabeth.
Marcus: Thanks very a lot.
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